Novice lifting question (Kubota specs vs. reality)

[Ken45101]

Think of a kid's teeter toter. Putting a 50 pound kid on one end totally removes all the weight of the 40# kid on the other end. Same principle.

If you hang enough weight out on the backend (more than specs allow), the front end would lift off the ground. Heck, I can almost do that with just a landscape rake on my B2710 (no loader or front weights). Literally going up a hill, the front end is so light that it just barely steers.

Ken

 

[repete]

Think of a kid's teeter toter. Putting a 50 pound kid on one end totally removes all the weight of the 40# kid on the other end. Same principle.

If you hug enough weight out on the backend (more than specs allow), the front end would lift off the ground. Heck, I can almost do that with just a landscape rake on my B2710 (no loader or front weights). Literally going up a hill, the front end is so light that it just barely steers.

Ken

You are making progress here Ken. I can see if you add enough weight to the rear end (rear of the axle) then the rear axle becomes somewhat of a fulcrum removing some of the weight from the front axle. Hmmm, and you didn't have to beat me with a stick like the wife.

If you stop quickly and the tractor still rocks forward (unnerving) then you support the ballast and the bucket load with the front axle. One must be very careful at this point.

 

[dex3361]

Think of a kid's teeter toter. Putting a 50 pound kid on one end totally removes all the weight of the 40# kid on the other end. Same principle.

If you hug enough weight out on the backend (more than specs allow), the front end would lift off the ground. Heck, I can almost do that with just a landscape rake on my B2710 (no loader or front weights). Literally going up a hill, the front end is so light that it just barely steers.

Ken

This is exactly whats like. Now keep in mind its not pound for pound because the lever behind the wheels are not long. Thats why we can put a lot of weight behind the wheels without raising the front wheels off the ground. I add a Box Blade 600# and about 600# of metal weights so I have about 1200# behind the wheels. That does not mean I am removing 1200# from the Front axle but a fraction of that weight, and I can tell the difference in the steering when set up this way.

 

[dex3361]

I am just going to respectfully disagree here.

Its ok to disagree. Its through hashing things out in an open forum that we can work toward doing things a better way.

 

[repete]

This is exactly whats like. Now keep in mind its not pound for pound because the lever behind the wheels are not long. Thats why we can put a lot of weight behind the wheels without raising the front wheels off the ground. I add a Box Blade 600# and about 600# of metal weights so I have about 1200# behind the wheels. That does not mean I am removing 1200# from the Front axle but a fraction of that weight, and I can tell the difference in the steering when set up this way.

Dex, you and Ken have made my day educational. I have a Northwest brand tiller (rated fro a 90 HP tractor) that is about all the loader on the 2550 will lift to move around. I guess if I am doing quite a bit of heavy loader work it would be better to leave it on.

Wife says "Good, now that you know more get to work". You guys have a great day!

 

[texasjohn]

I have to concur with Dex3361.

His explanation matches exactly my understanding of the physics of it AND my actual experiences.

I've had rear wheels off the ground and front wheels off the ground at different times and with different weight configurations front and rear. Weight BALANCE is ALL IMPORTANT to safety with these CUT's:thumbsup:

My rear tires are liquid loaded, front tire pressure is at max stated on the rim (to keep them from rolling off rim with heavy FEL loads) and I have various 3ph implements I choose from depending on task and counter weight needed.

 

[jim442]

Just remember in this case the fulcrum can break. Be careful-it's not like a half -ton truck, we all know you can put 5,000 lbs in them.
Also, if you are going to check your own machine pressure make sure you are not using a piece of junk pressure gauge. A standard gauge is a 3-2-3. Three percent accuracy in the first quadrant, two in the second, 3 in the third. So a 2700 psi machine should be using a 0-5000 or 0-6000 gauge. This will limit any inaccuracy to around 50 psi. Better still use a 1 percent gauge, bring money though $$$

 

[jim442]

I would argue that manufacturers don't design in obsolescence. They try to design a product that meets what they say the product will do and that doesn't result in a lot of warranty work (lost revenue). The end result is the same - less margin, less life; but the intent is different.

Ballast - For FEL work as much weight as you can put as far aft of your rear wheels without losing traction on your front wheels. Ballast applied aft of your rear axle does a lot more than just keep your rear wheels on the ground - it takes weight off of your front axle. If you plan to do a lot of heavy FEL work, then you really should have something heavy a fair distance aft of that rear axle - like a box blade or even better, a brush hog if you have plenty of maneuvering room. Front axles seem to be the week link with our SCUT & compact machines when an FEL is used at it's design limit.

-Jim

Hey Jim, I grew up in Windsor-where is Lake Hitchcock area???

 

[Baby Grand]

jim442-

It's been a long time gone - but when it was at it's peak probably all of Windsor was under its waters. That's why the soil is so deep and good for farms in the upper Connecticut River valley.

Glacial Lake Hitchcock

It's very similar to the soils in Sumatra where the shade grown tobacco came from:

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9406EFD9103DEE32A25750C2A9659C946397D6CF


-Jim

 

[slan]

So I use it to my advantage..to put on tire chains in the winter...I drive up to my dump truck and attempt to lift it up And when i do I get one wheel in the air. And by changing the side i lift, I can control which tire is in the air..

And your loader arms are not bent YET?
Raising the weight of your tractor on one side of your loader just to get your chains on seems like cheap now, expensive later to me.:thumbdown:

WOW, safety police on holiday?
You should take a picture of that and post it. We can link it to the appropriate area of the site.

Hey, its your unit, just don't want others to see it as a great idea