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  1. #1
    Bronze Member
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    Aug 2009
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    97
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    central/ se michigan
    Tractor
    Kubota L3130DT

    Default loader cylinder seal failure.

    I have the LA513 loader on my L3130dt. About a year ago my experienced neighbor and I replaced the seals on the cylinder which tilts the bucket. The light blue seal was actually coming out where the rod enters the cylinder. Now the same thing is happening on the same cylinder. Anyone know why? The rod was flawless on inspection when we took it apart last year. I've been lifting heavy logs with a set of forks recently. Could this have caused this? Thanks.

  2. #2
    Elite Member
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    Sep 2008
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    3,250
    Location
    NE USA
    Tractor
    JD LA115, WH 244, WH 525 hydro-pops,Original Troy Built Horse 8 HP

    Default Re: loader cylinder seal failure.

    dump cylinder whoopsies;


    Quote Originally Posted by homedad View Post
    I have the LA513 loader on my L3130dt. About a year ago my experienced neighbor and I replaced the seals on the cylinder which tilts the bucket. The light blue seal was actually coming out where the rod enters the cylinder. Now the same thing is happening on the same cylinder. Anyone know why? The rod was flawless on inspection when we took it apart last year. I've been lifting heavy logs with a set of forks recently. Could this have caused this? Thanks.
    About your cylinder and the reason it failed has many parts unfortunately.

    The cylinder was purchased from a supplier and made part of the entire system.



    The rod wiper which is the outer seal acts as a dust and dirt seal.



    It involves linear mechanics and the stresses that go along with them, which it is how the cylinder works.


    And as the stuffing box
    and piston are small in length-height-surface area it does not provide much strength/surface area to support the cylinder rod when working.


    the stress of lifting the logs and rolling the forks back and forth caused the rod to bend and the barrel to become egg shaped which has ruined the cylinder-

    A rod seal will not pop out if it is installed properly and greased when the the rod is passed through it.

    The piston and rod became bent when under load and then the rod seal popped out( you may or may not have a leaking stuffing box under the rod wiper).

    This occured for the following reasons;

    the extended loading created pressure to bend the rod while under motion and as a result cause the cylinder to arch and become egg shaped due to the bending.


    If a stop tube was installed between the stuffing box that was properly sized in length being 1 inch in length for every foot of extended length adding one inch for any length below one foot it would not have bent and become egg shaped.

    The stop tubes are made of bronze or steel and are slightly smaller in diameter than the piston of the cylinder and this creates a much larger surface area to distribute the lateral and linear stresses over the entire surface area of the piston stop tube and stuffing box.


    I have to run but the cylinder should be replaced with one that has a stop tube or the same thing will occur- remember 1 inch per foot of extended length and another inch for any additional lenght short of the 12 inch mark

  3. #3
    Platinum Member
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    Feb 2005
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    626
    Location
    Southern Indiana
    Tractor
    BX23

    Default Re: loader cylinder seal failure.

    LEONZ, you seem to be the expert on everything, but what made you decide the rod is bent and the "barrel to become egg shaped which has ruined the cylinder"? Perhaps you have seen the cylinder already and I have not.
    ron

    I was better, but I got over it.

    Life may change us, but we start and end with family.

  4. #4
    Bronze Member
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    Aug 2009
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    97
    Location
    central/ se michigan
    Tractor
    Kubota L3130DT

    Default Re: loader cylinder seal failure.

    Can I assume that if the barrel is now egg shaped, the end cap won't unscrew?

  5. #5
    Elite Member
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    Sep 2008
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    NE USA
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    JD LA115, WH 244, WH 525 hydro-pops,Original Troy Built Horse 8 HP

    Default Re: loader cylinder seal failure.

    The stuffing box will not be worth saving unfortunately
    in any case.

    If you pull it apart you will see the scuff damage on the bottom edge
    rod scraping into the stuffing box bronze wear surface if bronze is used
    as wear material




    Dependent on your time constraints you may want to order
    a new cylinder from a hydraulics repair shop with a stop tube OR
    order a replacement cylinder and visit a machine shop
    and ask to have a stop tube made and properly sized in length for the cylinders fully extended length which will shorten the stroke by at least 3 inches if the rods extended length is 2 feet plus and have the dealer install it in the cylinder to stop the problem if you have a lot of logs to move.


    Oh and the bore of the stop tube can be 1/32 larger than the rod diameter.

  6. #6
    Elite Member
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    Sep 2008
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    JD LA115, WH 244, WH 525 hydro-pops,Original Troy Built Horse 8 HP

    Default Re: loader cylinder seal failure.

    loader cylinder continued:


    Quote Originally Posted by 638 View Post
    LEONZ, you seem to be the expert on everything, but what made you decide the rod is bent and the "barrel to become egg shaped which has ruined the cylinder"? Perhaps you have seen the cylinder already and I have not.
    Thank you for the compliment and I will continue to keep my head out of my butt

    This happens with mining equipment where a singe cylinder is used to control a digging bucket on underground mining scoops and they dont bother with improving themm or upgrading the cylinder parts.



    The shovel operators will keep digging because they are not payin attension to anything but the need to fill the bucket and in the end the cylinder will suffer any of the following fates

    a. the rod eye will snap off

    b. the cylinder rod will break the rod eye weld and flatten the steel that the weldment is made of like a pancake while retracting the cylinder rod.

    c. the cylinder and rod will bend in an arc and become scrap metal as the individual parts-

    a. barrel
    b. packing gland, packing gland locking ring and rod wiper
    c stufffing box
    d. cylinder rod
    e. piston halves
    f. barrel end swivel bearing
    The only undamaged part left is the castle nut that holds the piston halves together.

    continued:
    and are ruined from the damage and force.


    We had one mechanic so disgusted with a bad cylinder that he could not disassemble that he filled it with acetylene and oxygen and fired it off and the rod packing gland and piston launched themselves over 150 feet from the main shop repair bay and the explosion could be heard and felt on the upper level of the mine.


    Not the kind of thing that you want to do at home mind you- it ranks right up there with goosing a tire with some acetylene to get the bead to seat on a tubeless tractor tire.



    They refused to buy a tuxco cylinder repair machine that disassembles and assembles cylinders because it was not a justifiable expense even though we had hundreds of hydraulic cylinders in use and still do.

  7. #7
    Elite Member wdchyd's Avatar
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    Apr 2010
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    2,700
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    Hooksett, NH
    Tractor
    Kubota B2320

    Default Re: loader cylinder seal failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by 638 View Post
    LEONZ, you seem to be the expert on everything, but what made you decide the rod is bent and the "barrel to become egg shaped which has ruined the cylinder"? Perhaps you have seen the cylinder already and I have not.
    What makes you say this is a compliment?.......
    2010 Kubota B2320 FEL & BH65
    If it ain't fixed don't broke it!

    http://www.tractorbynet.com/content/...-month-wdchyd/

  8. #8
    Elite Member wdchyd's Avatar
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    Hooksett, NH
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    Kubota B2320

    Default Re: loader cylinder seal failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by homedad View Post
    Can I assume that if the barrel is now egg shaped, the end cap won't unscrew?
    Don't assume anything......
    2010 Kubota B2320 FEL & BH65
    If it ain't fixed don't broke it!

    http://www.tractorbynet.com/content/...-month-wdchyd/

  9. #9
    Elite Member Chilly807's Avatar
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    Sep 2009
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    Nova Scotia
    Tractor
    Kubota L3400DT

    Default Re: loader cylinder seal failure.

    I too had a cylinder seal leaking after about 70-odd hours of operation. It looked to me like the inner lip had become "flipped" outward.

    kubota fixed it under warranty, the service tech mentioned they had had a few issues with seals in the past.

    Sean

  10. #10
    Bronze Member
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    Mar 2010
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    66
    Location
    Connecticut
    Tractor
    1947 John Deere A / B2920

    Default Re: loader cylinder seal failure.

    Don't stop tubes result in a longer overall cylinder dimension? If so how do you fit in place of the OEM unit?

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