M59 hydraulics got slow and weak.

[Hersheyfarm]

At 144hr the backhoe got to the point where I couldn't dig with it. No unusual noises. I changed fluid, filters at 70hr.

So I was on a jobsite yesterday and had to load it up and take to shop. One of the techs looked at it and first thing is he felt the 2 filters and one was hotter than the other. His thinking is a filter is clogged. he said Regardless, the first thing he would do in shop is change them out, dig with it and go from there. So i got the filters and said would do this at hope, hoping this is problem. But, why would a filter clog if nothing has broken down internally? I am taking filters of and dissecting them being careful to keep it in a container that can go to the shop with it so they can see it if this doesnt solve problem. Half of my hours are digging time so backhoe gets alot of use. No noises really, just complete lack of power. Any thoughts?
I'm off to get soaked in oil. And if something internal is wrong i am going to demand my $230 back for filters and oil, but will always be wondering why the filter plugged up at 70 hours if this cures the problem.

 

[art]

When things are built there are always small pieces that are left and that is why the first changes of filters and oils are so important. Your problem could be a piece of slag left within a system that is holding a relief valve open.

Second thing, before I'd go to far with this type trouble the first thing I'd do would be to change the filters and oil!!!!

I've seen filters that are to restrictive right out of the box! I've also seen filters that the wrong paper was used and virtually had no filtering ability for the application.

That is why I feel buying the best sometimes still isn't always enough!

 

[Hersheyfarm]

Well that fun is done. Got new filters on, cut paper out and saved fluid from filters. There is what looks to be brass particles, steel, and maybe aluminum. Not a huge amount but there. The fluid is a little dark. Is this a wet clutch? I'm getting cleaned up then fill it up and check it out. I lost 6 gal changing filters. So measure 6 gallons from drain plug and no mess when changing filters. Next time will be cleaner.

 

[rScotty]

At 144hr the backhoe got to the point where I couldn't dig with it. No unusual noises. I changed fluid, filters at 70hr.

I'm off to get soaked in oil. And if something internal is wrong i am going to demand my $230 back for filters and oil, but will always be wondering why the filter plugged up at 70 hours if this cures the problem.

Hershey, my M59 came with standard UDT tranny/hydrualic oil. I think they all do OEM. The dealer did the filter/fluid change at 50 hours and when I asked about what type of fluid he used he said he had made up the spillage - about half the tranny oil with New Holland Multi G 134 - he said that was approved by Kubota. I wasn't pleased, but not too concerned either as it worked and sounded fine and I trust him.

Still, I resolved to change the oil back to Kubota type at the 200 hour service. At 200 hrs I did the filters and went to the Super UDT. $$! Over the next month I began to have hydraulic problems - the worst of which was a stuck main boom cylinder which Kubota replaced under warranty. Then the pump began to whine and the thumb cylinder started sticking. And the hydraulic overpressure valves started sticking. Unfortunately the warranty period was now over. By then I had started to suspect the Super UDT - it hadn't impressed me all all that much back when I'd put it in. So on a hunch I changed back to New Holland Multi G 134. Over the next 20 hours everything cleared up and it works fine again. A fuller account is in the various M59 discussion threads here.

Of course it might have all been a coincidence.....
rScotty

 

[rswyan]

Any thoughts? I'm off to get soaked in oil. And if something internal is wrong i am going to demand my $230 back for filters and oil, but will always be wondering why the filter plugged up at 70 hours if this cures the problem.

Yup .... lemme see:

You've accepted the mechanic's diagnosis, elected to do the work yourself at home (depriving the dealership of that revenue), and if it doesn't work ..... you're gonna demand your money back ..... ?

..... impressive .....

 

[Hersheyfarm]

Yup .... lemme see:

You've accepted the mechanic's diagnosis, elected to do the work yourself at home (depriving the dealership of that revenue), and if it doesn't work ..... you're gonna demand your money back ..... ?

..... impressive .....

the mechanic said I can do it myself or they could do it it here. If the filters I bought and put on for the 50hr thing were bad I would be paying them. he thought thats what it could be. so yes, friday at 4:00, **** straight I elected to try the easy fix... but

That was not the problem. 3 new filters, 6 gal of juice, a job needing inspected monday and needs the backhoe to finish, a not pleasant saturday morning oil bath, and the hydraulics have no power. when I went to dig a test hole it started ok, but soon stopped responding. Doesnt have power to pick up the front bucket unless you increase the rpm's above idle. very slight high pitch wine comes from the front pump. It seems to drive fine and the boom swings at normal speed, i think.

and to the above poster who I quoted, looks like I will get what I deserve for cheating dealer out of money. whats weekly equipment rental? $800?

In 14 years this will be the first time my business has been equipment poor. kinda gives you a little sick feeling...

maybe the m59 isnt stout enough to support a business. I hope it is cause its perfectly size to pull around.

 

[rswyan]

the mechanic said I can do it myself or they could do it it here. If the filters I bought and put on for the 50hr thing were bad I would be paying them. he thought thats what it could be. so yes, friday at 4:00, **** straight I elected to try the easy fix... but ....

I really got no issue with you electing to do it yourself .... probably would have done the same myself ......

I thought the "demand my money back" part was a little over the top tho' ....

 

[Hersheyfarm]

I really got no issue with you electing to do it yourself .... probably would have done the same myself ......

I thought the "demand my money back" part was a little over the top tho' ....

mechanic said the first thing to do is change filters and try it out. My thoughts are they are using same parts to find a problem. Im not much of a demander anyways. Matter of fact I'm wigging out wondering if dealer is up to par. Ive bought hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment and never had to have one opened up. Hanging out back there in the service department was kind of a turn off. my salesman is a very good guy, the tech that looked at it with me seems very good. The overall look of the service department and management not so good. Me and my salesman were talking after kinda a spat with service management and him...he hates them. the word lazy, and not caring came out of his mouth. I dont know, in a perfect world the service department would look like a surgery room, not with numerous scattered dirty equipment taken apart in various stages. This, my ocd, and the current way business is in residential housing could put me over the top... or should I say under a bottle.:licking::thumbsup:

 

[Hersheyfarm]

also, does anyone know what the revision page is covering in the manual. its the page that shows the hydro and hst filters. The tech was really thinking there was a screen, and this unit is one of the first ones put out. it sat on their lot for like 2 years, one reason the deal was so good. did they change something?

 

[rScotty]

also, does anyone know what the revision page is covering in the manual. its the page that shows the hydro and hst filters. The tech was really thinking there was a screen, and this unit is one of the first ones put out. it sat on their lot for like 2 years, one reason the deal was so good. did they change something?

Parts or Service manual? Or operator's?

In the parts manual it might be because the page indexed for the hydraulic filter is actually a fuel filter. The hydraulic filter is on page 131 under the heading : Hydraulic oil line (suction).
I don't see any revised parts listed in the parts manual but my manual is first printing and I'm not on the revision list. Your mechanic will be. Note that the part 030 (a pipe threaded nipple) which is what the vertical driver's side hydraulic filters screw onto is known to loosen when changing the hydraulic filter(s). It's good practice to tighten that piece into the casting & consider using Loctite on the nipple-to-block threads before installing the filter. A glance at the way the screw threads are designed will show what the problem is.

In the service manual I don't see any mention of revisions for the filters, but the text and picture on pages G-26 and G-30 do repeat the same mistake that is in the owner's manual on page 85. That is, they all show the wrong illustration and reference drain plugs that don't exist.

If that mistake has been changed in later manuals then maybe that is the reason for the revision.

BTW, I've yet to meet a mechanic who makes money on oil changes. There's lots of ways to lose money doing them though. I still think the best mechanical work is done by a careful owner doing the same job for the second time.....
rScotty