BX2200 Steering Cylinder repair

[149owner]

Attempting to replace the seals in the steering cylinder, I can't get the shaft to come out of the cylinder. I'm trying to remove the shaft from the end that has the hose fitting at a 15 degree angle (left side from seat). The wiper ring is out of the bore about a 1/4" and I can spin it on the shaft but I can't get it to slide to the end of the shaft. I've got the outer snap ring of the cylinder against the side of vise and attempting to pull the shaft out of the cylinder by using a slide hammer motion. Does the shaft have to be removed from the other end? I'm trying to take it out that side because I didn't want to have to grind down a wrench thin enough to fit the flats of the shaft so I can get the tie rod off of the left side. I searched but didn't find any thread saying the shaft had to come out the right side. Thanks for any info.

 

[EE_Bota]

I've never done the job. Someone has, and will be along shortly I hope.
When I look at the BX2200 Manual, I see that there is an adaptor and tie rod section that shows an internal snap ring suitable for snap ring pliers.

Then, on down, there is the steering cylinder section. This section ALSO shows an internal snap ring, but different, and not for snap ring pliers. Book says "Push one of the guide assembly (3) to inside of the cylinder tube (2) just over the snap ring (4) as shown in figure (left). Therefore...implication..either side will do. Drill a 2.5mm diameter hole through tube over snap ring. Take a little screwdriver and lift off the snap ring while simultaneously supporting that action with a separate small screwdriver through the hole you drilled.

So, for the ring that actually holds the most stuff in, you have to push that stuff into the tube, and fish out a separate ring that looks very much like a piece of round wire.

I hope this helps. I have never done it. I am familiar now with the style of ring. The ring is just a stiff wire, and what actually holds it in place is the cone shape of the glob of parts it retains...the harder they push on that wire, the harder is gets captured in its groove. You will not defeat that ring; you must remove that ring.

I have encountered them repairing Honda Motorcycle anti-lock brake modulators. In that case, I mashed inward on what was being retained, and hooked the ring with my probe set. You may not be as lucky, and you may actually have to drill that hole. I'd give it the old college try, though, to see if I could avoid drilling the hole. But if you have to drill that hole, just drill it in the right place, and don't fret, there is an O-ring deeper still that does the sealing.

 

[149owner]

Thanks for the reply EE_Bota. I have removed the clips without drilling the hole. Of course I'll be heading to Sears later to replace a few mini screwdrivers that I had to modify or just bent too much to be useful anymore! It's a good excuse to head to the tool dept to see what else I absolutely need to have! I attached a photo showing the wiper ring out of the cylinder as far as it will come. Maybe the o-ring that is on the wiper ring is hung up in the snap ring groove but I don't want to try forcing anything and end up in deeper trouble.

 

[EE_Bota]

Still, maybe someone who has done the job before will come along..today is Sunday, so they could be visiting family, etc, and will be around later today.

If you figure it out, I hope you will post back. I have not done the job, but I will most likely get my opportunity any month now.

I wonder if it could be the piston driving the O-ring into the snap ring groove. You might want to abandon the piston approach, and attack that end plug directly a bit. Just a thought...may not work.

 

[149owner]

I got it! With the cylinder in a verical position in a vise, resting on the outer snap ring (what the cylinder holders rest against) and the piston rod out as far as it would go facing down, I hit the other end of the piston rod with a plastic hammer a few times and the rod came out! Be sure you are holding the piston rod when doing this so it doesn't drop to the floor! The o-ring on the outside of the guide assembly was caught inside the snap ring groove. To get the guide asembly out of the other end I used a socket with an o.d. the same as the inside part of the guide assembly. Turn the cylinder over in the vice, insert the socket and extension and hit the end of the extension with a plastic hammer until the guide pops out of the bottom of the cylinder. Have one hand under the cylinder to catch the guide when it comes out. Before disassembly I had soaked both ends of the cylinder with Kroil. I had the cylinder in a vertical direction in the vice and filled up the end with Kroil so it covered the snap ring and let it set. About an hour later I turned the cylinder over and soaked the other side. After the end was soaked I tapped the guide down with a piece of flat stock until the whole snap ring was exposed. The guide will only go into the cylinder enough to just expose the snap ring.

To get the snap rings out I ground down the blade on a mini screwdriver until it was just wide enough to fit into the snap ring groove. I tapped this screwdriver under the end of the snap ring until the snap ring was far enough out of the groove to insert another small screwdriver between the snap ring and the cylinder, going straight in from the end of the cylinder. A third screwdriver was then inserted between the second one and where the snap ring was still in the groove. By prying the ring out of the groove with this one and sliding the second one up to the third one (the second one keeps the ring from going back into the groove if the third one slips and comes out while you are prying the ring out of the groove). Keep moving the screwdrivers and prying until the ring is out.

 

[David s Von Gieserbrechta]

Here yuh go just in case you need some help figuring out where things go when you start to put it back together.

Don't know what your seal kit cost but mine was $76.00 so you don't want to mess this up.

David

 

[149owner]

Thanks David. I do have the WSM for my BX2200. I bought the kit last year and am just getting around to using it. I don't remember what I paid but I don't think it was that much. I bought it from Messick's.

One other note when removing the cylinder from the tractor. The WSM says you have to remove the under cover and flywheel cover to get to the hoses. I didn't have to do that. First remove the tie-rods from the spindles and then the bolts from the cylinder holders. I could undo the left side hose at this point. Once that hose is disconnected slide the cylinder to the other side and down to undo the other hose.

 

[NoEyeDeer]

Sorry to revive an old thread but I have a little bit to add that might help someone else doing this job in the future.

I repaired my steering cylinder yesterday and like 149owner I had trouble removing the seals. Thanks to this thread I knew it was just the o ring caught in the snap ring groove. But a few taps with a hammer didn't work for me. I ended up hitting it a lot harder and longer than I wanted. I also tried using a big clamp to push the rod out, but it refused to pop out. Fearing all the force might be damaging the mounting of the piston on the center of the rod I took the cylinder to the service counter of local Kubota shop to see if there were any other tricks to try. Instead of hitting the rod the young mechanic put the cylinder in a big vise and tugged on the rod until the seal came out. He was out the back of the shop so I didn't see whether the rod was fully extended when he pulled on it or if he pushed it back in each time and pulled it out hard to produce a hammering effect. As suspected the piston o ring was worn flat.

With the cylinder open I took a couple of steps sideways to the parts desk to see if they had a seal kit. They guy produced the little bag of seals and looked up the price, by the look on his face I could tell it wasn't cheap - $168 australian (shame Messicks are contractually restricted from shipping Kubota parts overseas). We both agreed I should try replacing just the o ring in the first instance. He gave me the name of a local hydraulics shop to try.

So 3 o rings and $6 later I'm back in business. I replaced the piston o ring and the outer o ring on each seal/guide assembly cause they looked a little scuffed after all the hammering. Still raining today so I haven't had a chance to really test my repair out but I reckon everything will be fine.

To get the seal out of the other end I used a large socket (wrapped in tape to avoid scratching the cylinder wall) on an extension rod. With cylinder vertical I bounced the socket up and down and the seal came out really easily after just a few taps!

So my main point is tugging on the rod may be a better way to open the cylinder rather than hammering. I guess the tugging force with the momentum of your arms and the rod would produce a slower, longer lasting force than the instantaneous rap of a hammer and would be better suited to compressing the o ring and pushing the seal out.

The centre piston mount was solid as ever after all my hammering - not a hint of free play. So if you are trying this job in the future and the seals are not coming out, stick with it you will get the seals out. Try tugging, try a rapid series of little taps, try using a rubber hammer, a block of wood, something will work.