Ag vs R4 on steep hills with a B7800

[Anonymous Poster]

<font color="blue">There is no compact utility tractor that can handle anything more than 20 degrees at the very most.</font>

Hi,

Boy, that is a pretty strong statement!

While I agree that crossing a 20 degree slope [or greater] is something I want to avoid, I doubt that what you state is true.

Can you site a reference? I don't mean to be antagonistic [sorry, no spelling checker here... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif] but from what I have seen looking at the geometry of MY tractor, I truly believe that if I take care and go slowly, I can easily traverse a 20 degree slope safely.

But in the end, your statement sends the right message. The need to be VERY cautious when crossing slopes cannot be argued.

R4 tires on slopes...wet slopes...I was amazed at how I broke into a slide on a wet slope. I say the original poster should go with the R1s if he is going to be on those slopes when it is wet. My opinion anyway...

 

[RoyJackson]

"Can you site a reference? ...I have seen looking at the geometry of MY tractor, I truly believe that if I take care and go slowly, I can easily traverse a 20 degree slope safely."

I don't have the ANSI specification number, although I've read parts of it here on TBN and links from TBN. It discusses how much side tilt a tractor can handle before rolling sideways. It was done using a basic tractor (no implements) on a tilt table. 20° for a standard machine was the limit with any degree of safety. Remember, not even an operator was seated on the machine when these tests were performed.

Hopefully, one of our TBN bretheren can come up with the number of the ANSI spec.

I've done 15° to 16° for short stretches. That is extremely uncomfortable for me. Once I reach 12°, I look for alternative routes (up and down).

I think is was Bird who had his older tractor (B7100, if I recall) on an 18° side slope, got off the machine and gave it a push from the uphill side to see how stable it was. Well, it didn't roll over!

But just looking at the geometry of your tractor doesn't give any indications of it's capabilities to take a side slope.

You know, I was driving to Pittsburgh on Friday. We went across the PA Turnpike. I did see a PennDOT mower on a slope that had to be well in excess of 20°. I was amazed!! I don't think I could have walked across that slope! Now, the was a tractor built especially for this kind of work. It was very low slung. It did not have dual wheels on the back. It was a Ford, BTW. Reminded me of the old Ford 8N's, but even lower. PennDOT must be using flail mowers exclusively...I saw several tractor mowers on the trip and they were all flail mowers.

 

[Bird]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Bird who had his older tractor (B7100, if I recall) on an 18° side slope )</font>

It was the B2710; didn't have a tiltmeter on the B7100, but don't think it would have been as stable as the B2710. And I suppose the B2710 might have managed 20 degrees, but my nerves wouldn't /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[JerryG]

I normally transverse 15 degree. THere is a pucker factor at the angle. I do BH up to 20 degrees of certain areas several times a years also. When I am at 20 or close to it, my pucker factor is real high. I will not transverse more that 20 degrees and this is on known areas.

 

[rmorgan]

Norcal--

I mow a dam with R4s. I've attached a picture which is pretty blurry due to dumbing down for posting, but you can get a little perspective from the little green stripe at the bottom of the hill which is a kayak that blew over. I go up and down, of course, and with the tail of the tractor always facing up. Sections of the hill are on a 25-deg. slope or maybe a little more here and there (a couple of place feel like I'm backing the tractor up a wall). The guy who built the dam had a 30-HP Kubota and actually drove it over and over the lip of the dam to go downhill with a boxblade and rake /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif but he's a pro--makes a skidsteer look like a slot car!! I never get any sidewayser than carefully angling for the next swath, and so far while I've had a little traction loss I've never slid out on the dam, having done that a couple times elsewhere and figured out that I really don't like it. I use low range, of course, 4wd, and the diff lock if necessary, but mainly I make sure I've got good light, I'm not tired or in a hurry, and the grass is completely dry, although our clay doesn't really dry out unless there's been no rain for weeks. The R4s do a credible job and do minimal damage, which of course is an issue with the R1s. Of course, the R4s are designed for loader work, and having had both kinds of tires the R4s seem to me to be a good compromise for slope mowing also as long as you're focused on their limitations.

 

[JackIL]

Roy,

Your description of the ANSI Roll Test is correct. (ANSI B71.4) The test specifies that in order to pass, no upslope wheel of the tractor must lose contact with the tilt table surface when it it is raised to 20 degrees.

Dynamic effects such as a bounce induced when a wheel drops into a small hole or traverses a small bump can reduce sideslope stablilty rapidly. It would not be prudent to assume that just because a tractor passed the ANSI B71.4 test that the operator could do anything he wanted to safely on a slope "averaging" 20 degrees. The small local effects can have a major effect. As others have pointed out, with any attached implement such as a loader that raises the combined center of gravitiy of the tractor and implement the stability limit is reduced. The mere presence of the operator on the seat always raises the center of gravity and thus has a negative effect.

Please don't try to test the limits. A sideslope incident can occur very rapidly, and "puckering" won't help.

JackIL

 

[CTyler]

I put a tilt meter on my L3130 with R4's and 15 deg doesn't seem like its that much to me personaly. 20 deg seems like its steep enough though and at about 23+ its scary. I've got one slope very smooth and it about pegs the meter. It "feels" like your at 45 deg. Pulling the box blade across it the tractor kind pulled sideways. Meaning you had to point the tractor uphill very slightly to pull straight across. I went across it at about .5 mph this was to cut it down a litte and then get it roughed up to plant grass.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

The maximum slope you can safely operate your equipment on is determined by a combination of common sense, caution, operator skill level and knowledge of your equipments operating characteristics. The last two can only be obtained with seat time and observing how the tractor handles on different slopes with different configurations and loads. I have had my BX2200 for 6 months and I am just now feeling comfortable that I know most of its operating limitations on slopes (I’ve been operating tractors for 40 years). I also know that I will be adding to the “operating knowledge” and “skill level” for as long as I own the equipment. So, the maximum safe slope will vary from tractor to tractor and operator to operator.

I live on a hillside so every time I take my tractor out I have to deal with slopes. Most of my property is 15 degrees with a few side hills 20 degrees and a small amount at 10 degree slopes. I also have a bank that is about 30 - 35 degrees (haven’t measured but I will do so tonight). I have always mowed the entire property with my tractors, including the bank. Up to 20 degrees I feel safe going across the slope (slowly when I approach 20 degrees). My property is smooth for the most part, so I do not have to deal with unexpected dips or mounds. Anything above 25 degrees I will only traverse vertically and when the traction is good.

Operating the tractor with a FEL on these slopes is a different story. I don't feel comfortable operating the FEL across slopes greater than 15 degrees (I’m not comfortable even at 15 degrees). If there is any slope I try to operate the tractor up and down the slope. There is no better advice when operating a FEL on a slope than the frequently quoted “low and slow”. Wearing the seatbelt is a no-brainer for me, I always buckle-up.

John

 

[MarkV]

John brings up an interesting point about feeling less comfortable with the FEL on when traversing a slope of around 15 degrees. My tractor the FEL is not removable so I don't have any basis of comparison. Do those of you that operate at steep, 15 degrees and more, side angles have opinions about the difference with or without the FEL mounted.

I do feel like John is correct about each tractor, operator, implement, tire pattern, and other factors having a lot to do with what you are capable of doing. Rick from R&B Manufacturing, the tilt meter people, has been asked for years what are the limits you can go. Rick has always taken the position that there are to many variables to give one answer for every situation. For those who don't know Rick did road bank mowing at one time and those guys do slopes I couldn't bring myself to go on.

MakrV