Metal found during transmission fluid change

   / Metal found during transmission fluid change #1  

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Just got my L2850 back from the dealer after having the transmission fluid changed. When they replaced the filter, they cleaned the magnet and found what appears to be the remains of a snap ring. The mechanic said the fluid looked clear and didn't see any suspended metal particles in it.
I bought the tractor used about 2.5 years ago and don't know it's history. It now has about 600 hours. It is a 4WD with a shuttle shift.

From the time that I bought it, it has had a "rattley" whine that comes from the rearend. It is the loudest when it is cold and going in reverse. Stepping lightly on the clutch while moving makes it go away. I had always assumed the noise was normal and didn't think too much about it but know I have to wonder if the snap ring fragments might be related.

What kind of noise is "normal" from the rear end/ transmission and any hints as to where a snap ring might have come from?
 
   / Metal found during transmission fluid change #2  
I imagine that there are more than a dozen snap rings in most gear transmissions and differentials. You often find snap rings at the ends of shafts and near compound bearings. A missing ring could cause abnormal sounds and early mechanical failures.

If I was in your situation, I'd feel quite a dilemma. The question is whether the noise results from a missing ring, or is even abnormal. Some missing rings may not be much of a concern and could just be left alone. The broken ring may have been from a previous repair, or even accidentally dropped in through the oil fill.

Anyway, I think a service manager's opinion, and maybe even a second opinion, is needed. Splitting a tractor, removing the axle housings etc. to look for a missing ring is a real expensive way to fish in the dark. If it was me, I'd sort of wonder why the dealer didn't try to sort the thing out a bit while the tractor was there. There's also a good chance that 4wd and PTO drives also have snap rings in them. Unless the problem is narrowed, it could be quite a fishing expedition, and maybe not even necessary.
 
   / Metal found during transmission fluid change #3  
DAVE, sorry I can not be of more help, I have a 95 model L2650 geared 4wd and with about 500 hours on it. There has never been any noise from the rear end or tranny. But I know this can very from machine to machine.
 
   / Metal found during transmission fluid change
  • Thread Starter
#4  
Tom and Jaq,
Tom, Your comments about the snap ring is exactly what the mechanic told me. The first thing they asked was if the transmission had ever been worked on. They thought it might have been left over from a previous repair ( or the remains of the cause of a previous repair). I bought the tractor from a dealer 200 miles away and I'm sure he doesn't know the history either.
This is quite a dilemma. I don't want to tear the thing apart looking for something that might not be a problem. On the other hand, I would rather catch a problem early and avoid a major repair bill later. Not knowing where this snap ring came from is giving me "fits".

Jaq, Thanks for your input about your L2650. I'll talk some more to the mechanic about the noise. I mentioned to him that it whines but he didn't say much about it. The tractor has been in the shop several times with several mechanics and they never mentioned anything so I suspect that it may be normal.
 
   / Metal found during transmission fluid change #5  
Dilemma literally means 'two works.' I guess if the tractor works, that's not too bad, but it might be. Then, if the tractor stops working, that could be bad. However, waiting for something to stop working (if it ever does) might be cheaper than looking for something that might not even be there. Arrrahgh. I really don't know what I'd do in your situation.

I suppose this is a reason to find a real good mechanic. They command extraordinary hourly rates, and are worth every cent when needed. My Ford 1/2 ton developed a vibration at a specific speed. A flock of lesser mechanics was balancing wheels, working on leaf springs and u-joints as well as theorizing about torque converts and transmission mounts, without effect. I took a Ford dealer shop foreman for a ride. It took him 5-seconds after we went through the vibration speed to say: 'It's the drive shaft, the only thing it could be.' Yep, worth every cent, and dealer shop rates are ridiculous.
 
   / Metal found during transmission fluid change #6  
I'd spend some time with the parts manual and try to narrow it down to a set of possibilities. You should be able to locate all the snap that could end up in the sump, and perhaps by size eliminate some of them to narrow it down. Maybe you can then identify one that might explain the noise.

It may not answer the question about whether to tear down now or wait, but if you can find the candidate snap rings. at least you will know where to go looking if you do tear down. You may also be able to predict what further damage might be done if you just ignore the problem.

When in doubt, gather more information.
 
   / Metal found during transmission fluid change
  • Thread Starter
#7  
tomg,
A few comments on shop rates being rediculous...
-How much is a good experienced mechanic worth?
or would you prefer a guy making barely above minimum wage with little or no benifits.
The majority of dealerships require mechanics to supply there own tools (good tools that make it through a 40 hour work week) how much do you think that costs. What's the motivation to buy decent tools and become proficient at your trade? $$$$$$$$
You must have some experience with the price of parts
how much do you think special tools cost?
How many times do you think you are charged for the labor time it ACTUALLY took to do the job. The service dept. usually has to "eat" alot of time.
Ever wonder what a company has to pay for liability insurance?
Shop supplies,uniforms,service training,utilities,complying with haz-mat and osha regulations.
It's not cheap to run a repair shop.

As for the snap ring dillema.... It could easily take 12-15 hours to dig into that transmission to find the source of that snapring. @ $55.00 an hour that's $825.00. that's alot of money to say to a cust. we did'nt find anything missing, must have been leftover from assy. or a previous repair. But hey, It's your peace of mind. What's it worth to you? The mechanic informed you of a possible problem, the balls in your court at this point.
 
   / Metal found during transmission fluid change #8  
The comment seems to be a rant. I'm not sure how the rant relates to mine or any other comment here, and I'm just not in the mood to be on the receiving end of a rant. Read carefully, pick subjects where contributions can be made and keep cranky dispositions to one's-self seems like a pretty good approach but one not followed here.

Ridiculous is paying dealer shop rates for changing oil or checking tire pressure. When solving a problem requires skill and equipment, dealer shop rates can be a bargain. That’s what I think I said, and I don’t see how a professional mechanic could differ with that. Of course, not all dealer shops are created equal either.
 
   / Metal found during transmission fluid change
  • Thread Starter
#9  
tomg,
you are absolutely right, I apologize.
 
   / Metal found during transmission fluid change #10  
Kubmech,

While your reply may have had a "rant" tone, it did raise a LOT of valid points 'bout the costs of a service shop. We (customers) often forget that the great "free" advice we get from our dealers has a cost at some point!

Please keep on reading and contributing!

John Bud
 
 
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