adding a control valve and rear remotes to Kubota L2800 and LA 463 loader

[farough99]

Hmm... have you tried operating the 3 point hitch yet? Possibly with any load on it? Unless I'm missing something, the valve "tank" connection you hooked to the 3PH (at the block) only has flow available when the remote valve is operating and oil is being returned from a cylinder or motor. In other words, you're using "second-hand" oil flow to operate your 3PH. I think you do need a different valve, one with 5 connections, those being "pressure in", "tank", "power beyond" (usually with an adapter) and the 2 work ports.

This is because the oil being returned from the cylinder or motor needs somewhere to go when the cylinder or motor is being operated. In this case, you have it flowing to the 3 point hitch instead of the tank. What I THINK will happen is that once the accessory cylinder is at it's maximum stroke (either extended or retracted), is that the 3 point hitch will stop lifting, since there's no more flow to it at that point. There's also the issue of back pressure on the remote valve. If you have a load on the 3PH and the valve calling for more oil, that load pressure will be felt at the tank port as well, and may bind the remote valve.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

The way the power beyond system works, is that it is a series circuit in which the items that are first in the flow path take priority over those that come after them. 95% of these are plumbed with the loader coming first, the remote valves second, and the 3PH coming third in line. The 3PH is almost always the last item in line. When you're using the loader, if you're using all the oil flow (i.e. the valve is fully open), there is no oil flow to the remotes or the 3 PH. Same with the remote.. if it's fully opened there is no flow to the 3PH valve. This can be a problem if you're using a hydraulic motor to drive a spreader for example and want to raise the 3 PH while the spreader is running. I think a flow divider would work in that instance, but we're getting beyond where we need to be.

I've added some more pictures of my valve hookup. Just in case. From what I can see, Gordon's is virtually identical to mine.

Sean

Hi Sean Thanks for the reply

I totally understand what you mean. The reason I did this is Gordon has a little note on his post before opening his schematic and says to plumb it like that if I don't have a power beyond valve??? I have to take my wife to the dentist and when I get back will try the tests you mentioned. Will let you know Thanks john

[Gordon Gould]

John, I will be surprised if your set up does not work. You will find, I believe, that you can operate the remote valve or change the 3ph height but not at the same time. When your new remote valve is in center position (neutral) oil flows thru it Pin to Tank and on to the 3ph valve. When the 3ph is not in motion oil also passes thru it to the tank. It looks like any open center valve. When you operate the remote valve oil flows into the cylinder thru the remote valve and exhaust oil flows out of the other end of the cylinder back to the valve and out the tank port. This oil then passes thru the OC 3ph valve back to tank.

Now comes the iffy part .... There has been many discussions on this and wide disagreement. Sean is saying that you should use a valve with Power Beyond. I happen to agree with him. The biggest reason is that valve tank ports are generally not speced for high pressure flow. When you use the 3ph and the system pressure rises. This hi pressure flow will be flowing thru your remote valve and out the tank port to the 3ph so the tank port will see the hi pressure it is not speced for.

But...... many, many, many TBNers and even shops have installed extra remote valves on there tractors plumbed the way you did yours with non-PB valves and they don't seem to have problems and everything works. So that makes the arguement. The worst that will happen is that you will have premature valve problems in you new valve. You will not hurt the tractor.

I did not mention this in the beginning because I did not want to cloud the water for you. I figured you had the valve already and had already plumbed it into your tractor so you might as well get what you have working. I hope I did not cause you any trouble by adding that note on the end of my post steering you this way.

Look in the hydraulics section you should be able to find some discussion on this.

[Chilly807]

Interesting.. I hadn't looked at it that way. The reason I mentioned it was because Gordon's drawing showed a PB capable valve with 5 ports, instead of a non-PB valve with 4 ports. Now I'm getting curious too to see if it does work.

Sean

[herringchoker]

I doubt that you will have a problem with it. I agree with Gordon, it is desirable to have Power Beyond for the reasons stated. I had a non-PB remote valve plumbed via the tank port on my previous tractor and it worked without a glitch for 15+ years before I sold it. The remotes on my current tractor do have PB.

[farough99]

I doubt that you will have a problem with it. I agree with Gordon, it is desirable to have Power Beyond for the reasons stated. I had a non-PB remote valve plumbed via the tank port on my previous tractor and it worked without a glitch for 15+ years before I sold it. The remotes on my current tractor do have PB.

Well so far so good. Everything is A-OK Loader control and 3ph will operate at the same time and rear remotes at the same time as loader etc. Also I just installed a new L2230A Quick coupler on my L463 loader. There are other threads about the stops and bending the cylinder rods. Mine works perfect and the stops on the loader frame and Quick coupler are in exactly the right place. Perhaps they have upgraded the coupler recently. The 84" Bobcat front blade is a little big for this tractor but will work for awhile till I freeze to death and trade for a larger cab tractor. Will not be breaking any speed records with the little tractor and big blade. Thanks again for ALL the help. Very much appreciated. John

[Chilly807]

Also I just installed a new L2230A Quick coupler on my L463 loader. There are other threads about the stops and bending the cylinder rods. Mine works perfect and the stops on the loader frame and Quick coupler are in exactly the right place. Perhaps they have upgraded the coupler recently.

Now I'm really curious.. dare I ask what Kubota wanted for the coupler?? Did you weld an adapter plate on the existing bucket, or simply get a different bucket? I think the L2230A is compatible with any skid steer mount, it's not Kubota specific is it?

I've been thinking I wish I'd gotten the QD bucket lately. I might be better off to just buy a QD bucket, although I can cut the old mounts off and weld the adapter plate on myself. They were selling the plate here for $130. I have the 60" bucket, really don't have a use for the 66". Most things I do aren't a rush job.

The time will come when we have to start buying round bales, so a bale spear on a QD mount will make my life a lot easier. Then again, it might be a valid reason to buy a bigger tractor.. the 463 will handle small rounds, but anything close to the lift capacity is going to be a problem.

Sean

[J_J]

It is amazing the money that one spends on a hyd valve and not use it according to specs.

If the specs say that the input pressure should be 2200 psi would you exceed that with a 3000 psi pump.

So why would one use the tank port which is rated for about 500 psi to supply downstream fluid for say the remote or 3pt.

Either one of those valves using a fully loaded attachment may develop the 2200 psi pressure and cause the other valves to see a high back pressure/max pressure, and perhaps damage them as to seals or split the valve core. Call the valve manufacture and they will tell you the straight scoop.

You hear people say they have used it this way and nothing happened. Perhaps just lucky.

You can trick or cheat the system sometime, but not every time.

Most hyd valves with out PB, are generally used as the last valve in the system , with the OUT /return port going to tank with little or no back pressure.

Some talk about using both valve at the same time. This will only occur when the first valve is feathered, leaving some pump fluid.to pass downstream.

If the first valve is using all the pump fluid, then there is no fluid for downstream use.