B 26 backhoe running slower and slower

   / B 26 backhoe running slower and slower #71  
Time for a little update on the B26. Weather has been so nasty that I havent messed with it as far as trying to figure out the problems. I still havent taken it back to the dealer and am thinking that I might try another dealer although he is 59 miles from me whereas Timberline is 27. Not any rush to work on it as I aint gonna be out in 25F weather doin' nuttin'
Well it warmed a bit today so I pulled the B26 into the shop and decided to try something that I hadnt tried before. After looking at my buddy Carl's diagram and thinking that is Kubotas way and mine supposedly wasnt, I thought that perhaps they didnt just swap the lines from one lever to the other. I took off the two lines in question, put the ones from the left control lever on the right control lever and took the line from the bottom and put it on the top and top one on the bottom. NOW it works as it should (for me at least) Now I push both levers and the boom and dipper extend and when I get it set to lets say dig 2" deep, I just pull both levers full back and it retracts and stays exactly that height. I just have to adjust the bucket to keep it level otherwise it ends up with the teeth up in the air.

Anyway, now I have to pull on the right lever to raise the boom rather than left lever<(I think)

It just seems easier to me if the left levers only purpose is to control the boom, up down, left and right.
What you're saying, if I understand it right, is now your boom is split between the two levers. It just seems like you're making it more complicated, but I guess it's whatever you get used to.
 
   / B 26 backhoe running slower and slower #72  
Does the B26 not have a float function on the boom circuit? I know the BX version does not, but I've seen spec's on larger backhoes that have the float function. I believe the idea is that, with the boom in float, you can dig by pulling the dipper stick in and the boom will float up by itself helping to keep the bucket at the same depth.
 
   / B 26 backhoe running slower and slower #73  
Anyway, now I have to pull on the right lever to raise the boom rather than left lever<(I think)

thats so backwards. You mentioned your front bucket suffering too? My bet is pump.
 
   / B 26 backhoe running slower and slower #74  
Does the B26 not have a float function on the boom circuit? I know the BX version does not, but I've seen spec's on larger backhoes that have the float function. I believe the idea is that, with the boom in float, you can dig by pulling the dipper stick in and the boom will float up by itself helping to keep the bucket at the same depth.

Interesting question, I never heard of a float function on a boom before, but that means very little because this is the only backhoe I have ever owned. I am curious though, and will definitely check in the morning.
 
   / B 26 backhoe running slower and slower
  • Thread Starter
#75  
It just seems easier to me if the left levers only purpose is to control the boom, up down, left and right.
What you're saying, if I understand it right, is now your boom is split between the two levers. It just seems like you're making it more complicated, but I guess it's whatever you get used to.

No not split between two levers. The left lever works the dipper and the right works the boom which is just opposite the Kubota setup but it is the way I learned. The previous owner said it is set up to operate like a Case backhoe. I have never operated any backhoes before this one, so once I figured out what worked what it became a natural thing to do without really thinking about it. So when the mechanics screwed everything around, nothing would move in the direction that I wanted it to. Even when I got it in position to dig, if I pulled both levers like normal, it wouldnt dig, it would jump up (boom up too high, dipper too low etc, just wasnt coordinated in the movements like it should be.
With it the other way, I couldnt make it work to save my life. NOW, It still works the same way, push to extend the hoe and pull to bring it back but now it works correctly when digging in that after it is set in position, I pull both levers full back and the hoe comes back evenly with no erratic movements causing me to have to adjust boom up or down, kinda like the poster who asked about float position which it doesnt have by the way.
I dont know if it makes reading sense, but basically with it set up now, say that you are digging a ditch and want it 2 feet deep and you are attempting to take it down in 3" increments. Now I insert the hoe 3" below the grade, pull back on both levers full stop and the bucket stays at the predetermined hight, I just have to adjust the bucket level so it stays flat, as it comes closer to me it tends to curl up which is ok for digging in the beginning as you want the concave bottom contour. When you get to the depth that you want, you have to pull both levers back full and kind of bump the bucket control a bit as you come in toward the tractor so it stays flat and keeps the ditch bottom level.
It all depends on how you learned and the auto-response command our brains send, it is similar to driving a British car on a British road when you have always driven in America. You can relearn it but you have to relearn the whole schematic, shift with the left rather than the right, drive on the left rather than the right etc. Much of what you do when operating machinery, after you are familiar with it and with several hours under your belt, is automatic responses. You dont think about it consciously to turn the wheel to stay on your side of the road, it is autoresponse, so I just couldnt break the auto response impulse to pull one lever when my brain was telling me that the other one actually moved the darn boom or stick or whatever.
 
   / B 26 backhoe running slower and slower #76  
No not split between two levers. The left lever works the dipper and the right works the boom which is just opposite the Kubota setup but it is the way I learned. The previous owner said it is set up to operate like a Case backhoe. I have never operated any backhoes before this one, so once I figured out what worked what it became a natural thing to do without really thinking about it. So when the mechanics screwed everything around, nothing would move in the direction that I wanted it to. Even when I got it in position to dig, if I pulled both levers like normal, it wouldnt dig, it would jump up (boom up too high, dipper too low etc, just wasnt coordinated in the movements like it should be.
With it the other way, I couldnt make it work to save my life. NOW, It still works the same way, push to extend the hoe and pull to bring it back but now it works correctly when digging in that after it is set in position, I pull both levers full back and the hoe comes back evenly with no erratic movements causing me to have to adjust boom up or down, kinda like the poster who asked about float position which it doesnt have by the way.
He must have meant a catapillar.
 
   / B 26 backhoe running slower and slower
  • Thread Starter
#77  
He must have meant a catapillar.
I thought he said Case, could have been Caterpillar, in any case it was what he was used to running so he changed the controls to match. I can sure understand that after trying to run it the way those Kubota guys set it up.
I still am a lot PO'ed about why they though moving all the hoses around would make the hydraulic pressure higher. That was the directions on the repair problem,1) "Backhoe seems to be having less and less power over what it was when I got it" 2) Check hydraulic relief valve pressure.
Did they think that I switched all the hoses and it got weaker so then I didnt have a clue why.
NO they didnt check the hydraulic pressure or flow as requested.
 
   / B 26 backhoe running slower and slower #78  
If I understand what you've done correctly, to clear this up for others....

You've simply changed the control pattern to an excavator style control. Normal Kubota setup is John Deere style. The proper terms are SAE and ISO patterns.

SAE pattern = stick/swing on left lever, boom/bucket on right lever = Caterpillar, or excavator style

ISO pattern = boom/swing on left lever, stick/bucket on right lever = John Deere, or backhoe style

the two patterns simply swap the boom and the stick functions between the two levers
 
   / B 26 backhoe running slower and slower #79  
No not split between two levers. The left lever works the dipper and the right works the boom which is just opposite the Kubota setup but it is the way I learned. The previous owner said it is set up to operate like a Case backhoe. I have never operated any backhoes before this one, so once I figured out what worked what it became a natural thing to do without really thinking about it. So when the mechanics screwed everything around, nothing would move in the direction that I wanted it to. Even when I got it in position to dig, if I pulled both levers like normal, it wouldnt dig, it would jump up (boom up too high, dipper too low etc, just wasnt coordinated in the movements like it should be.
With it the other way, I couldnt make it work to save my life. NOW, It still works the same way, push to extend the hoe and pull to bring it back but now it works correctly when digging in that after it is set in position, I pull both levers full back and the hoe comes back evenly with no erratic movements causing me to have to adjust boom up or down, kinda like the poster who asked about float position which it doesnt have by the way.
I dont know if it makes reading sense, but basically with it set up now, say that you are digging a ditch and want it 2 feet deep and you are attempting to take it down in 3" increments. Now I insert the hoe 3" below the grade, pull back on both levers full stop and the bucket stays at the predetermined hight, I just have to adjust the bucket level so it stays flat, as it comes closer to me it tends to curl up which is ok for digging in the beginning as you want the concave bottom contour. When you get to the depth that you want, you have to pull both levers back full and kind of bump the bucket control a bit as you come in toward the tractor so it stays flat and keeps the ditch bottom level.
It all depends on how you learned and the auto-response command our brains send, it is similar to driving a British car on a British road when you have always driven in America. You can relearn it but you have to relearn the whole schematic, shift with the left rather than the right, drive on the left rather than the right etc. Much of what you do when operating machinery, after you are familiar with it and with several hours under your belt, is automatic responses. You dont think about it consciously to turn the wheel to stay on your side of the road, it is autoresponse, so I just couldnt break the auto response impulse to pull one lever when my brain was telling me that the other one actually moved the darn boom or stick or whatever.

I'm not clear on which way your controls are set up currently? It seems to me you figure, by bringing both controls back simultaneously and all the way back it should pull the grade you want. That's not going to happen. You may have to pull one lever back a tad more than the other and so on. Takes practice to get the feel of the controls to make them do what you want. IMO The best way is stick with what your most use too. I had to switch my dipper and boom to Cat style (boom right, dipper left) controls. Just not at all use to Kubota contols.

Though manufacturer are interchangable, Case original controls were four levers (including extendahoe) and two foot swing pedals.
 
   / B 26 backhoe running slower and slower
  • Thread Starter
#80  
If I understand what you've done correctly, to clear this up for others....

You've simply changed the control pattern to an excavator style control. Normal Kubota setup is John Deere style. The proper terms are SAE and ISO patterns.

SAE pattern = stick/swing on left lever, boom/bucket on right lever = Caterpillar, or excavator style



ISO pattern = boom/swing on left lever, stick/bucket on right lever = John Deere, or backhoe style

the two patterns simply swap the boom and the stick functions between the two levers

That is exactly right.
 
 
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