BH77 - has anyone considered converting mechanical thumb to hydraulic?

[jim_wilson]

I expect that they should have it ready for us in the next couple months. They've been trying to get their hands on a BH77 locally. If they can't do that soon, then we'll use my machine to test everything. They already have a thumb kit for compact hoes with a hydraulic upgrade to their kit - I just asked them to retrofit the hydraulic upgrade to the BH77's mechanical thumb.

See pricing they've discussed in my post above.

Great.

I already have the Kubota manual thumb on my BH77. Just having an upgrade that converts it to hydraulic was exactly what I was looking for.

If they're located in the New England area - let me know. Maybe I can help out to get this going.

It's funny. I've been going over my B3200 the last few days trying to think out some of the improvements I'd like to make. And just today I thought I would start looking into the hydraulic thumb thing too (along with some other things) . So I sat down tonite and started searching - and came across this thread. I must have missed it - because I don't remember seeing it before.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

How are they tying in the plumbing of the new valve?

I've got the perfect cyl waiting, just have to cut off the base mount, rotate 90 deg and re-weld. I thought about using a diverter valve with a switch on the boom stick but I'd have to get 12v power to is somehow - and remember to unplug the wires when I remove the BH. I could run lines to one of my other sets of remotes but then again an extra set to hook & unhook every time. It would be nice to have it plumbed off the existing BH valve but as I understand it, you can't mount valves in series.

$600 sounds like a smokin deal to me for a complete kit - but I'm used to hydraulic prices up here in Canada.

 

[My Hoe]

We're discussing 2 options for thumb control.

Hydraulic Foot Pedal Control: Includes 2" Bore Hydraulic Cylinder, Hydraulic Control Valve with Foot Pedal, all hydraulic hoses and fittings for connections, and any pins and mounting hardware required.

Push Button Control on Backhoe Joystick Handle: This set-up would include a new control grip with a built in momentary switch, electric selector valve, 2" Bore Hydraulic Cylinder, and all hydraulic and electric connection hoses/fittings/etc. Selection would be between the boom swing function and thumb circuit. This would give you the thumb control in your left hand and bucket control in the right hand so you could use them at the same time. Also, the thumb control and bucket control would both be in the left-right direction of the joysticks.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the non-foot pedal control simply an electric solenoid? And IF that's correct, doesn't that leave you with ZERO FEATHERING ABILITY on the thumb?

If so, THAT, plus possibly no relief valve, seems like quite a bit of potential for trouble--bent rod, etc....

Have you read the instruction manual, someone posted a page or so back, for the addition of a hydraulic thumb to the Woods BH80-X "Groundbreaker?" Some feel that is a superior hoe to begin with (no offense, but they DO offer a hydraulic thumb option on their B-class-sized hoes) and I'm wondering if the team working on your conversion couldn't benefit from reviewing it's foot pedal control valving/setup, which I BELIEVE would allow feathering.

Since Woods are often fitted to Kubotas, I have to believe there's some valuable info in there, for the "hydraulic gurus" to use.

Why reinvent the wheel?

Just my .02

 

[bandit67]

The foot pedal control DOES allow feathering. They already have a hyd thumb option. I have just asked them to fit the hyd thumb upgrade to the BH77's mechanical thumb.

Some feel that the Woods hoe is superior? Big deal. Give me one example of someone who has owned both the "superior" Woods hoe and the Kubota hoe. I've owned 2 Kubota hoes on B series, and though the current hoe doesn't have a lot of hours on it, the first one did all I asked of it, a lot of what it was able to do, coming as a surprise. I don't think you'll find too many B series owners out there who have done more hard digging than I have.

I found someone with a good reputation for putting out quality tractor components that was willing to look at fitting their existing hydraulic kit to the BH77 so that I, not being a hydraulic guru, didn't have to attempt to do myself. Woods wasn't willing to do that for us, at least not in the past.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I have a B26 and the foot control pedal on my hydraulic thumb. It folds up and locks with a pin when not in use and is completely out of the way. I don't know if my platform is larger that yours or not, but even with it folded down, it is still plenty of room for your feet. It is mounted on the right side of the control tower just above the floor.The way the hydraulics are set up, the thumb seems to be as strong or stronger than the bucket. I can curl it up against the thumb and it stops the bucket and vice versa, I can push the thumb against the bucket and it stops without any damage. I have no idea how any one can bend a cylinder on these unless he lets the dipper down on a rock so it contacts the cylinder rod. Neither of them should have the power to bend the others hydraulic cylinder.
I think if I were putting on a thumb, I would go with the foot pedal simply for less money, more control and no electrical component to go bad.

 

[My Hoe]

Deleted--people who won't (or can't?) READ ACCURATELY, and who are then RUDE, when I'm trying to HELP them, are not worth my time.

 

[bandit67]

Thanks for the valuable input.

You jumped into the thread acting like the folks I'm talking to were a bunch of yahoos that didn't know what they were doing after you apparently hadn't read through the thread. All of these issues have been discussed. And Woods didn't offer a hydraulic thumb when the BH80 was first introduced, so their marketing about it being designed for a hydraulic thumb has had to be changed. Yes, it was the only one for a while that could be installed on a B series cab machine. I certainly didn't find the Woods unit to be a superior option on my B3030 open station because it hung so far off the back end since there was only one frame available. Now, there are 2 hoe options for the B series cabs. Woods & Kubota. I suspect now that Kubota has addressed the cab issue, that Woods share of the market has dropped off dramatically.

As for the hydraulic thumb, there's no reason it can't be designed to safely operate without damaging the hoe or the hydraulic cylinders and in all reality, doesn't require any additional strength added to the hoe. If Woods was forced to reinforce their hoe once they added hydraulics to their thumb, then maybe it wasn't so superior to begin with. Keep in mind that these are fairly small machines, with low hydraulic flow, and the pictures of damage you may have seen typically come from larger, more powerful commercial units.

However, I'm not going to get into a Woods vs Kubota hoe p***ing contest, as owners of both brands seem quite happy with their hoe.

You get all defensive, come across with a certain tone in your first post disrespecting the company that is working on the thumb, then come back with an even more obnoxious tone in your second post, then end it with "peace"? Nice.

I see you decided to delete your obnoxious post. Thank you.

 

[bandit67]

Just to clarify for those that may still be interested in the option of joystick control of the thumb. The electric solenoid push button switch that can be mounted on top of the joystick will switch back and forth between thumb open/close and boom left/right swing, so when you hit the switch to use the thumb, the right joystick curls the bucket and the left joystick opens/closes the thumb. And yes, you can FEATHER the thumb with this configuration, just like you can with the foot pedal configuration.

Gary, thanks for the heads-up. They're working on some ideas for keeping the foot pedal out of the way, and the B26 flip setup is one of the options they're investigating.

 

[jim_wilson]

I have a B26 and the foot control pedal on my hydraulic thumb. It folds up and locks with a pin when not in use and is completely out of the way. I don't know if my platform is larger that yours or not, but even with it folded down, it is still plenty of room for your feet. It is mounted on the right side of the control tower just above the floor.The way the hydraulics are set up, the thumb seems to be as strong or stronger than the bucket. I can curl it up against the thumb and it stops the bucket and vice versa, I can push the thumb against the bucket and it stops without any damage. I have no idea how any one can bend a cylinder on these unless he lets the dipper down on a rock so it contacts the cylinder rod. Neither of them should have the power to bend the others hydraulic cylinder.
I think if I were putting on a thumb, I would go with the foot pedal simply for less money, more control and no electrical component to go bad.

That's the kind of option I would prefer. I think a B26 style foot pedal with the thumb being on it's own hydraulics would just be a better setup all around - vs - piggybacking off the hydraulics of one of the existing valves in the control stack for the hoe.

The problem with separate hydraulics is: how do you add it in. I've looked at the setup on the BH77 quite a bit - and the only way I can see to make it it work is somehow graft another valve inline - and they control it with some linkages from a lever - or a foot pedal.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

That's the kind of option I would prefer. I think a B26 style foot pedal with the thumb being on it's own hydraulics would just be a better setup all around - vs - piggybacking off the hydraulics of one of the existing valves in the control stack for the hoe.

The problem with separate hydraulics is: how do you add it in. I've looked at the setup on the BH77 quite a bit - and the only way I can see to make it it work is somehow graft another valve inline - and they control it with some linkages from a lever - or a foot pedal.

This is what I've been wondering. And where do you put it?

How is it done on the B26? Do they come stock with the extra valve in the stack already and the option of the aux lines gives you the linkages to the valve and the boom lines?