Looks like I need to get some rear wheel weights

   / Looks like I need to get some rear wheel weights #1  

wmonroe

Elite Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2005
Messages
3,558
Location
Southwestern, PA
Tractor
1958 Ford 961 Powermaster
After spending some time plowing the driveway the last week i think i am going to get some rear wheel weights. My driveway is fairly long at approximately 1000' and has a fairly steep section. The tractor struggles to make it up this steep section in the snow, about 6 - 10", i have to lock the rear end and it spins and claws its way to the top. I haven't had traction issues doing any other work yet but in the snow the R-1's just are biting in good. The rear tires are not filled as i use is to mow my grass also and try to keep the weight down. I guess my plan will be to add as many rear wheel weights as i can for winter and then take them off when snow plowing is over.
 
   / Looks like I need to get some rear wheel weights #2  
I have a L4740 w/R-4's and I had a hard time plowing my private road, like you, one section is really steep, yesterday I plowed on the way down,tractor with loaded rears wouldn't come back up. I had some ash's from my coal stoker with me and lightly dusted the paved road, tractor went up without spinning a wheel. I plowed this morning and was able to come up without reapply ash. It appears the ground is just warm enough to keep the snow as a slush, when I plow it,what is left turns to Ice. The only thing that helps on ice is tire chains.
 
   / Looks like I need to get some rear wheel weights #3  
We have filled tires on our tractor with R1 and R4 and neither does all that well in snow on steep stuff unless it is pretty fluffy, if we had it more often, we would have to get some chains. I even have ballast on the back of one of them.
 
   / Looks like I need to get some rear wheel weights #4  
That should work. I am planning to do the same. I don't want to load my tires because I'm then locked into it.
 
   / Looks like I need to get some rear wheel weights #5  
If you are in snow or ice especially in R1's More weight won't help much you need to increase the coefficient of adhesion between the tire and ground. your money would be best invested in some chains. especially if you don't plan on leaving the wheel weights on all the time. I have not had a chance to invest in chains for my M8540 yet as its not my primary mode for cleaning off the driveway, but i have loaded rear tires 900 + pounds in each tire and it still sucks in hard pack snow or ice. I was on my way over to my buddies 2.5 miles away the other day to work on some firewood and struggled to get going on the hill in front of my house in 4wd My total weight with my wood box and loader is pushing 10,000 lbs. My parents have an old 2wd ingersoll 4018, with chains only no weights on the rears and that thing plows snow like mad even on ice.

The amount of force you can generate prior to wheel spin (static Friction) can be measured by F= u N
Where

F= Tractor pulling/ pushing force
u = coefficient of friction
N = Normal force perpendicular to the road surface for this example assume level ground.


Assume 2wd for example you have 2500 lbs on the rear axle on gravel the force you can generate is F= 2500lbs *0.6 = 1500 lbs

on hard pack snow you generate 625 lbs of force
on ice you could only generate 250 lbs of force

With snow chains and the same weight you could generate at least 1000 lbs of force but probably more. to calculate how much weight you would have to add on level ground to get the same traction you would need to solve F/u -2500lbs = Added weight = 1000lbs /.25 -2500 lbs = 1500 lbs of additional weight on level ground. On a 10% or 20% slope all of this goes out the window and your future looks very dismal :laughing: (see part 2) as your additional weight is now only a portion of the normal force increase, the rest is additional weight trying to pull you down the the hill ,this gets geometry involved and the example gets much longer.

Friction Coefficients for Ag tires to various surfaces
Assuming your driveway is gravel the coefficient of friction is approximately 0.6
Hard pack snow = 0.25
Ice =0.1
estimated friction values for various surface and ag tires found here
Tire Friction coeffiecnts


Snow chains are a little harder to find information on but i found this
link stating that snow chains must have a friction level of at least 0.4 on hard pack snow.


Part two the more entertaining part other people who could benefit from chains

This guy can't even stop himself from sliding down the hill and he probably weighs 15000 lbs
 
   / Looks like I need to get some rear wheel weights #6  
If you are in snow or ice especially in R1's More weight won't help much you need to increase the coefficient of adhesion between the tire and ground. your money would be best invested in some chains. especially if you don't plan on leaving the wheel weights on all the time. I have not had a chance to invest in chains for my M8540 yet as its not my primary mode for cleaning off the driveway, but i have loaded rear tires 900 + pounds in each tire and it still sucks in hard pack snow or ice. I was on my way over to my buddies 2.5 miles away the other day to work on some firewood and struggled to get going on the hill in front of my house in 4wd My total weight with my wood box and loader is pushing 10,000 lbs. My parents have an old 2wd ingersoll 4018, with chains only no weights on the rears and that thing plows snow like mad even on ice.

The amount of force you can generate prior to wheel spin (static Friction) can be measured by F= u N
Where

F= Tractor pulling/ pushing force
u = coefficient of friction
N = Normal force perpendicular to the road surface for this example assume level ground.


Assume 2wd for example you have 2500 lbs on the rear axle on gravel the force you can generate is F= 2500lbs *0.6 = 1500 lbs

on hard pack snow you generate 625 lbs of force
on ice you could only generate 250 lbs of force

With snow chains and the same weight you could generate at least 1000 lbs of force but probably more. to calculate how much weight you would have to add on level ground to get the same traction you would need to solve F/u -2500lbs = Added weight = 1000lbs /.25 -2500 lbs = 1500 lbs of additional weight on level ground. On a 10% or 20% slope all of this goes out the window and your future looks very dismal :laughing: (see part 2) as your additional weight is now only a portion of the normal force increase, the rest is additional weight trying to pull you down the the hill ,this gets geometry involved and the example gets much longer.

Friction Coefficients for Ag tires to various surfaces
Assuming your driveway is gravel the coefficient of friction is approximately 0.6
Hard pack snow = 0.25
Ice =0.1
estimated friction values for various surface and ag tires found here
Tire Friction coeffiecnts


Snow chains are a little harder to find information on but i found this
link stating that snow chains must have a friction level of at least 0.4 on hard pack snow.


Part two the more entertaining part other people who could benefit from chains

This guy can't even stop himself from sliding down the hill and he probably weighs 15000 lbs

Thanks for the link on friction values. I thought this was interesting reading.
 
   / Looks like I need to get some rear wheel weights #7  
No problem just would hate to see someone spend an bunch of money only to have to go out and spend some more money because they bought the wrong tool. I forgot to mention that adding weight on dry ground or gravel makes a lot of sense but when you only have a traction benefit of %10 for every pound you add on ice.
 
   / Looks like I need to get some rear wheel weights #8  
The chains I put on my 8N have chain links between the cross links so it minimizes the amount of chain that will fall in the lug of the tire. With loaded R1's, it is nearly unstoppable in the snow and ice. Without chains, it slides around and spins allot. Total tractor weight is 3000 pounds. My L3940 Kubota has the aggressive turfs, 4wd, and a 1200 pound ballast box, and I have yet to need chains. Philip.
 
   / Looks like I need to get some rear wheel weights #9  
Unless you need your 3pt hitch for something else I would go with a ballast box over wheel weights. The box will be much easier to remove. I think chains would be a better option though but they can do damage to cement and blacktop.
 
   / Looks like I need to get some rear wheel weights #10  
I can verify those friction numbers from personal experience. Years back I was part of a test for a substitute for road salt. My job was the crash test dummy as I'd go 40MPH on the test roads (in traffic) pop it into neutral and slam on the, non anti-lock, breaks and see how far it slid and a friction meter spit out a coefficient of friction. My numbers were very close to what was posted above. I can add pavement in the rain at 0.50 and ice with rain falling on it at just 0.05 where if your going down just a gentle incline you can actually speed up when you apply the brakes.
Just yesterday I pulled a 14 foot U-Haul truck up a twelve percent grade covered in ice and snow. The sand I had spread on it the day before had got snow covered and plowed off and the young driver and the all season tires literally didn't make the grade. 7000 lb tractor pulling about a 15,000 lb. truck and the truck wasn't helping much if at all. Without my chains I wouldn't have had a chance and I was in low 2 and using all the power I had and even spun a bit.
Having a tractor that doesn't tear up the lawn is nice but if you need to do any winter work with it I'd trade a few lawn divots for not being stuck out in the snow or sliding into Mom ma's new car. Chains are the bare minimum to have on hand in snow country and loaded tires should be the norm not the exception if you have a loader on the machine. The combination works great. You should have enough weight so spinning a chained tire is a rare thing and if your not spinning then you won't tear up your pavement.
 
 
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