Oil & Fuel Fuel Issues With Regen Tractors

[bdhsfz6]

Posts on Fuel problems are common on the site but I've found little associated with regen tractors. I'm on my 5th Kubota now since 1979 and have been using #2 fuel oil (home heating oil) in all of them for off road purposes. The manuals for the first four tractors say to use diesel fuel. The manual for my new MX5800 says to use ultra low sulfur deisel. In the 35+ years I've been using #2 fuel oil in my Kubotas, I have never had a fuel related problem. I draw it off the top of my indoor furnace fuel tank to avoid water and sediment and then filter the fuel twice before using. I have never had to change a tractor fuel filter nor drain water from the separator.

The dealer of course agrees with Kubota and says to use ultra low sulfur fuel. I did corner one of the mechanics in the shop who told me candidly #2 F.O. should be ok if it is filtered properly. My mechanic neighbor says "#2 is the same stuff with sulfur and no additives". He's been using #2 F.O. in his off road diesel equipment for years without problems but none are regen equipped.

The new MX5800 is my first regen tractor and at 60+ hours, I've seen no problems with #2 fuel oil. Aside from legal issues, I'm curious if anyone has had a problem using it in a regen machine.

 

[George2615]

I'm not sure about PA but #2 Home Heating Oil in NY is ULSD <15 PPM sulfur according to my supplier. You may want to ask yours. I've been using it for years without problem. I do use Power Service additive (white bottle) to prevent gelling. I have 3 - 275 gallon tanks. 2 for the furnace and 1 for the tractor. When I call for fuel oil delivery I have them put an extra 100 Gallons in the tank for the tractor. The only problem I see would be if you had to take your tractor in for a warranty repair and they determine you have been running LSD instead of ULSD they may not cover it.

 

[CreekyB]

You might want to take a look at the DPF in that MX5800, call for pricing on one. Make your decision on fuel based on that. Not sure about the ones in these tractors but the ones in the buses and trains here at work run $12,000 to $15,000 just for the filter. One on my buddies pickup cost him $11,000


We ran leaded fuel in vehicles for years, not only is it not an option now but it would wreck modern emissions systems.

LSD is not ULSD, any additional sulphur in your fuel will result in more particulates in your DPF, more frequent regens, more frequent external service. (DPF Cleaning) that in an of itself can cost a few thousand depending on where you are. You can of course run anything in it that you want, it is yours. I am not sure the cost saved is going to be worth the price of admission.

I do not sell tractors, nor do a sell service of any equipment to private parties. I do manage the work on a lot of these tier IV systems. I wholeheartedly recommend you follow the MFGs recommendations on this, it will save you money, lots of money.

 

[sixdogs]

You might want to take a look at the DPF in that MX5800, call for pricing on one. Make your decision on fuel based on that. Not sure about the ones in these tractors but the ones in the buses and trains here at work run $12,000 to $15,000 just for the filter. One on my buddies pickup cost him $11,000


We ran leaded fuel in vehicles for years, not only is it not an option now but it would wreck modern emissions systems.

LSD is not ULSD, any additional sulphur in your fuel will result in more particulates in your DPF, more frequent regens, more frequent external service. (DPF Cleaning) that in an of itself can cost a few thousand depending on where you are. You can of course run anything in it that you want, it is yours. I am not sure the cost saved is going to be worth the price of admission.

I do not sell tractors, nor do a sell service of any equipment to private parties. I do manage the work on a lot of these tier IV systems. I wholeheartedly recommend you follow the MFGs recommendations on this, it will save you money, lots of money.

Anyone know what a DPF would cost for a Kubota and how long it might last? Those are disappointing prices.

 

[CreekyB]

Anyone know what a DPF would cost for a Kubota and how long it might last? Those are disappointing prices.

It really depends on the size of the DPF and how many are sold. The smaller the cheaper but also the smaller turn over the more expensive.

We were using a Donaldson machine for DPF cleaning, it uses a common thermal shock/sonic shock method of dislodging deposits. This works but as we found out also ruins DPFs. It causes microfractures in the media. We went with an FSX machine. All told about $45K in on the machine(s) for the processes and we had our own screw compressors that would handle the massive amount of air it needs to function.

I could only guess at the cost of the Kubota DPFs. I did not need over 25 HP so I chose carefully to avoid any extra emissions. The engine on the L2501 is adequate to what I need a tractor for and meets Tier IV final with just a little injector technology.

At the end of the day just make sure you are feeding the machine clean fuel, make sure the machine is running well. Any issues having to deal with performance or emissions have them taken care of immediately and you should hit at least 60% of the service target points for the machine with regards to the DPF. Out of several hundred engines with DPFs 70% is the closest we got to a regular DPF service interval. May be different for offroad diesels but I highly doubt it.

 

[Fallon]

Most, if not all home heating oil now is ULSD. Ask your supplier, but I'm pretty sure you'll find they fill diesel tanks &heating oil tanks with the same stuff. Back in the day it was the same high suffer stuff, now it's all ULS stuff.

Red dye is added to indicate road taxes haven't been paid on it (don't get caught with red dye in your truck) & nothing else.

 

[MHarryE]

Home heating oil has also been ULS since 2010.

Depending on the engine power class, the DPF is warranted for periods of I believe 3,000 to 5,000 hours. DPF filled with soot does not mean buying a new one. Unless something has happened to damage the substrate, they can be cleaned. Places I have checked can clean for $200 to $500 depending on what contaminants are in the DPF. If it's plain soot its at the low end, and if it's oily its at the higher end although something like a blown turbo can contaminate the DPF so it needs to be replaced. But - the turbo is also on the long term emissions warranty and is normally covered. I'm not sure that many understand that no matter what the manufacturer's warranty is, there is a long term emissions warranty that, except for high users, really extends the warranty. My 4 Kubotas each came with a emissions warranty supplement. I have 2 Tier 4 finals and 2 Tier 4 interims.

 

[sixdogs]

Very good info MHarryE. That really changes the way to think about Tier 4 to a more positive view.

 

[CreekyB]

I got curious about the emissions warranty from Kubota. Could not find the DPF listed but it is not excluded.

EMISSIONS-RELATED PARTS LIST
Listed below are the parts covered by the Federal and California
Emission Control Systems Warranty. Some parts listed below
may require scheduled maintenance and are warranted up to
the first scheduled replacement point for that part. The
warranted parts are (if applicable):
I. For exhaust emissions, emission-related components
include any engine parts related to the following systems:
1) Air-induction system.
2) Fuel system.
3) Ignition system.
4) Exhaust gas recirculation systems.
II. The following parts are also considered emission-related
components for exhaust emissions:
1) Aftertreatment devices.**
2) Crankcase ventilation valves.
3) Sensors.
4) Electronic control units.**
III. The following parts are considered emission-related
components for evaporative emissions:
1) Fuel Tank.
2) Fuel Cap.
3) Fuel Line.
4) Fuel Line Fittings
5) Clamps*.
6) Pressure Relief Valves*.
7) Control Valves*.
8) Control Solenoids*.
9) Electronic Controls*.
10) Vacuum Control Diaphragms*.
11) Control Cables*.
25
12) Control Linkages*.
13) Purge Valves.
14) Vapor Hoses.
15) Liquid/Vapor Separator.
16) Carbon Canister.
17) Canister Mounting Brackets.
18) Carburetor Purge Port Connector.
IV. Emission-related components also include any other part whose
only purpose is to reduce emissions or whose failure will increase
emissions without significantly degrading engine/equipment
performance.
*As related to the evaporative emission control
system.
**High-priced exhaust emission-related parts
include, but are not limited to the Engine Control
Module (ECM) and Catalytic Converter

 

[Fallon]

I'm pretty sure a DPF is an after treatment device, which is listed.