UDT vs SUPER UDT, Yes it is my FINAL Answer...

   / UDT vs SUPER UDT, Yes it is my FINAL Answer... #1  

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Bringing this "debate" up one more time /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif. My multitude of phone calls to dealers all over western Washington and Western Oregon produced similar results. To summarize, the feeling is among service departments is that the Super is for cold areas. One or two mentioned they use Super UDT in warranty tractors because Kubota says to. Most do not use Super in ANYTHING, ANYTIME, a lot don't even carry it. One said they were actually told by Kubota it was developed to aid cold use problems. All said they know of no problems of any kind using UDT in anything but an excavator which I guess generates more heat or has a need for the better? thinner? oil.

Based on talking to all of these dealers I went with the UDT in my L35. Now this is just based on my unscientific feeling, I wasn't even thinking of comparing this, and because of the fact that I wasn't thinking in advance of comparing this I consider my subjective feeling that hit me all of a sudden to be pretty valid.

Something no dealer mentioned...the lightning fast hydraulics on my L35 are still fast, but not lightning fast. At a fairly low rpm, 1200, the loader would empty like someone had pulled the pins and it was dropping from gravity, if you left it in dump mode too long it would BANG against it's stops. The backhoe was sometimes like a wild fire hose. Now it is (to me) tamer. Sure that is safer, but I think I would have eventually caught up to it and used the speed.

The thing I liked best was that at almost an idle the loader would jump up and down, I could feather it moving along backwards. I still can...but unless I have gone insane it really IS slower. As I mentioned above, I wasn't planning on comparing this aspect (hadn't even thought of it) so the fact that I felt the next day that things had slowed down really makes me think thing HAVE slowed down.

It stands to reason that a lighter oil with a high output pump WOULD flow faster then a heavier oil doesn't it?

I also felt that the shifting was slower, that there was more hesitation, and when it did shift there was more of a jerk to it when it engaged.

I'm wondering what the "weight" of the two oils are and how that compares to a true synthetic. If a synthetic is lighter then Super UDT it would stand to reason you'd notice a pickup in your hydraulic function after switching, or am I off base here?

I could have of course kept mum about this to save "face". No one likes to admit they made a mistake, but IMHO you should think about this aspect when your dealer says they only use UDT. I just can't believe I felt this way about the speed for no reason. About 50 degrees out. Feel free to prove me wrong (at least I'll feel better!)

Sign me...

Going a little slower,/w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif looking forward to my next oil change/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif!

del oldcarparts@mygarage.com
 
   / UDT vs SUPER UDT, Yes it is my FINAL Answer... #2  
Del, the oil I put in a Kubota L4850 was Amsoil synthetic 30 weight hydraulic fluid. I notice no improvement over the stock fluid. Heat characteristics all appear to be exactly the same. Braking, clutching (4850 has a wet clutch) and hydraulics all react the same. It does not get that cold here in Northern California so perhaps a colder climate might reveal a difference. Rat...
 
   / UDT vs SUPER UDT, Yes it is my FINAL Answer... #3  
Rat, I'm one of those who has figured synthetics are fine, but no worth the cost in most cases; however, I decided to try the Amsoil in my B2710. I haven't noticed any difference in performance, but I do think the hydraulics are just a little bit quieter; wouldn't swear to it though./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird
 
   / UDT vs SUPER UDT, Yes it is my FINAL Answer... #4  
Del,

Excellent report!!

I have previously posted my two cents on this subject and still can not fathom why someone would sacrifice a few bucks for our $35,000 toys. The difference in costs between using UDT and super UDT in our L35's is $65.00. I wanted to protect and preserve my investment in my L35 and I used super UDT in my last hydraulic oil change. I have too much money wrapped up in my L35 to save $65.00. I feel so strongly about this, the next time I change my fluids I am going to use AMSOIL because I think it may be better that super UDT. Some reports speculate that super UDT is only a semi-synthetic. I do not believe there is solid evidence what the formulation is, however, we know that AMSOIL is 100% synthetic.

Also, I did not understand the comments of the dealers you contacted which suggested you should not use UDT in excavators.My manual recommends UDT in my excavator. However, when I change my hydraulic oil for my first time I am going to use AMSOIL. Only the best for my toys!!!!

Anyways, your observations were appreciated!!

Jon
 
   / UDT vs SUPER UDT, Yes it is my FINAL Answer... #5  
Guys, this slower, quieter, better... reminds me of a by-line in a motorcycle mag years back talking about synthetic oil. The manufacture did not use it and sometime after the first oil change by the dealer the writer changed to it to see if I had any effect... Yes the bike was smoother, the shifts did not jerk as much, the motor ran quieter, gass mileage improved. Later he was talking with the dealer mechanic about the improvement in the preformance, and was told the that the synthetic oil was in it from the first change because it was all the dealership used. Now What?
 
   / UDT vs SUPER UDT, Yes it is my FINAL Answer... #6  
Jag, some folks swear their car runs better after its been washed. It might be mental gymnastics, that is, us wanting to believe something so we do whether it's accurate or not. The Amsoil imformation (advertising) is pretty persuasive and I swore my tractor would be doing flips after changing the 14 gallons of hydraulic fluid. Its kinda like the Mountain Dew commercial, drink it and your spiking volleyballs, jet skiing, girls in bikinis, all this from a can of soda. I switched to Amsoil because at 32 deg. or above, I am supposed to let the tractor hydraulic fluid warm up for 10 minutes, I have never waited that long yet. I figured that the synthetic oil might provide some benefits at temperature end becasue the Amsoil brochure said it would. Maybe it does, but I don't know how to tell. Rat...
 
   / UDT vs SUPER UDT, Yes it is my FINAL Answer... #7  
<font color=blue>It stands to reason that a lighter oil with a high output pump WOULD flow faster then a heavier oil doesn't it?</font color=blue>

Kinematic viscosity -- the time required for a fixed amount of an oil to flow through a capillary tube under the force of gravity.

Makes sense to me.

<font color=blue>I'm wondering what the "weight" of the two oils are and how that compares to a true synthetic. If a synthetic is lighter then Super UDT it would stand to reason you'd notice a pickup in your hydraulic function after switching, or am I off base here?</font color=blue>

AMSOIL Synthetic Tractor Hydraulic/Transmission Oil (ATH)30W
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 50.1

JOHN DEERE Hy-Gard JD20C W(unknown)
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 58

JOHN DEERE Low Viscosity Hy-Gard JD20D (A direct replacement for SAE 10W engine oil in hydraulic applications)

Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 32

Del, ya hafta wonder if the differences in the 2 Deere fluids would be similar to a comparison between UDT and SUPER UDT. What we need now are some Kubota numbers. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

DFB


18-30366-dfbsig.gif
 
   / UDT vs SUPER UDT, Yes it is my FINAL Answer...
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Jon,

Quite a few dealers just said "We don't use Super UDT in anything but the excavators".

del
 
   / UDT vs SUPER UDT, Yes it is my FINAL Answer... #9  
Bird, you're going to try Amsoil???? You had better give Mark C. a heads up about this. When he returns to the board, if he were to read that you were using Amsoil and he wasn't properly warned (you might want to say he needs to be prelubed up /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif), he could suffer great mental anguish! Could lead to a complete break down.

I thought about switching my tractor and Ford 250 over to Amsoil but decided to stay with Rotella. I do use Amsoil and an Amsoil filter in my Dodge 3500, would like to add a by-pass filter as well. I think Amsoil or the other synthetics are worth the money IF one keeps their vehicle for a long time. My Dodge has 110,000 miles and is my pull vehicle. I plan on keeping it for another 7 years. The Kubota I'll trade in as soon as they come out with a 60 hp ag tractor with HST. I'll sell the Ford in 2003, it has 92,000 miles.

I love the HST. When I use my brother's 3710HST then get back on my geared M5400 I almost cry. His is so much easier to maneuver....especially when doing loader work or work that requires you to frequently change your speed. Why don't they put the hydros in ag tractors? Does anyone know?

Oh, one last thing. After I say that I don't use Amsoil in the 'Bota or Ford I feel very guilty. A little voice whispers to me from the dark corners of the room, "Use the Amsoil, Bill." I blame this guilt feeling on Mark C.

Bill Cook
 
   / UDT vs SUPER UDT, Yes it is my FINAL Answer... #10  
Bill,
<font color=blue>The Kubota I'll trade in as soon as they come out with a 60 hp ag tractor with HST.<font color=blue>

<font color=black>Have you tried the glide shift model? For ag use it gives you the best of both worlds.<font color=black>
 
 
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