New Kubota - horsepower requirements and performance

   / New Kubota - horsepower requirements and performance #1  

graysonh

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2017
Messages
32
Location
Sierra Foothills, CA
Tractor
Yanmar YM 155D (mine), Landini 85F (at the day job)
Hello Kubota Forum, first off, I apologize if this should be in the Buying / Pricing thread.

At work we're looking for a new tractor -- top on the list is a L6060 4WD HST with cab -- to handle most of our spraying in the spring and summer. The sprayer has a 52 PTO HP requirement. The rep from the sprayer company has assured me that as long as we hit 52, we're fine. That is to say, 70 is no better than 53 with regard to tractor performance while using the sprayer.

My primary question: is this true in y'all's experience? We have a hilly property, and it's hot so the AC will be on. I am concerned about power loss when going uphill, etc. I have a fair amount of tractor experience, but I've never had a cab or a hydrostatic tractor. Secondary questions are whether HST is better/worse/the same as geared transmission when it comes to power maintenance, and, of course, if there's any other models in the same size and price range that I should be considering.

Thanks! I hope that was clear.
 
   / New Kubota - horsepower requirements and performance #2  
I think powering a large sprayer + cab AC + >100 degree temperatures + uphill is too much to ask.

A tractor that has 52-horsepower/PTO new, will likely be down 5% to 10% in power after 18 to 24 months, but your requirements will not reduce.

I would "move up" to an M7060/cab/4-WD with 64-horsepower/PTO, turbocharged as is the L6060.

Running any engine at max of long periods under hot conditions does nothing for reliability.

Reliability is primarily a factor of the prudence and experience of the operator(s). This includes the buying experience.


Soon someone will post how conservative Kubota's capacity recommendations are. But it won't be their tractor, their grapes, nor their tractor down time.


BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.​
 
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   / New Kubota - horsepower requirements and performance #3  
Price them out on the Kubota build page and I think you will see you can step up to say a M7060 and have room to spare HP wise and gain in almost every other way too. For spraying you will want to keep constant speed and RPM. I'm not sure what features the L60s have but I know that the HST is noisy and resonates inside the cab. I'm not sure if the L60 has a cruise control to hold you'd speed but you surely don't want to have to hold it for long periods with a HST pedal. The M7060, especially the 12 speed offers almost infinite speeds to choose from, has clutchless shuttle shift from forward to reverse, the tractor is quiet outside and SUPER quiet inside the cab. The RPM hold button keeps you rpms/PTO speed set excactly where you put in during added loads of decreasing ones like hills will do. I guess what I'm saying is stepping up in tractor size you get a lot more bang for your buck. I was recently in the same boat and stepped up and got eh M7060 and do not regret it one bit, it is an awesome tractor. What size/type of sprayer are you looking at and what are you spraying and what else are you planning for your tractor? A M7060 will let you carry or tow a larger spray rig too.
 
   / New Kubota - horsepower requirements and performance #4  
When I first moved on the property - 80 acres - I bought a new Ford 1700 4WD geared tractor. It worked great - however in 2009 I traded it in for a new Kubota M6040 that is HST. All my smaller jobs were completed and it was time to move on to bigger projects. The new Kubota is fantastic. It works every bit as well as the geared Ford did.

I've found over the 35+ years being out here in the pucker weeds that the transmission type on your tractor is only a small concern. Whether geared or HST - you will get accustomed to its operation and within a short time it will become second nature.


I've NEVER heard of pto driven implements with such precise & narrow power requirements.

As an example - My Wallenstein BX62S chipper -
Hp requirements for maximum capacity....................... 60 to 70

Hp range.................................................................. 35 to 100

As you move towards the 35 hp area - you would expect the unit will not handle the larger trees - - likewise if its hooked to a 75 pto hp tractor, I would expect max performance.

I would have a serious talk with the rep and find out exactly what he is talking about - if he even knows. If the pto hp drops to 50 hp - what can you expect the sprayer to do??? Will it explode?? Will it shut itself down??? OR as I would expect - just not spray as far or as hard.

BTW - I completely agree with Jeff & Ipigott. Its going to be tough on all your equipment if the power requirements are alway right at the top of what the tractor can produce. Move up to the M class Kubota and the M7060 would be an excellent choice.

I would still want to nail down what in the H*ll that rep was talking about and the ever so specific power requirements.
 
   / New Kubota - horsepower requirements and performance #5  
We shall see what the OP replies as to his crop. I am assuming grapes in the Sierra Nevada, as a retired California winery worker.

Lower sprayer output means covering fewer rows of grapes, meaning more trips through the hilly vineyard, means increased labor cost.

Minimum M7060 width of 73" may be an issue. M "Narrow" series will have the horsepower and width of 37" to 54", but tend to be expensive and FELs are not available.
 
   / New Kubota - horsepower requirements and performance
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Thanks very much for the thoughtful responses.

A tractor that has 52-horsepower/PTO new, will likely be down 5% to 10% in power after 18 to 24 months, but your requirements will not reduce.

Excellent point that I wasn't even remembering. That in itself is reason not to "just barely make it"

lpigott, I had been wondering about the HST and maintaining a constant speed too. I figured constant speed is highly valued in many operations so they must've figured out a way to make it happen on HST -- through cruise control or what have you -- and I'd learn about it at the dealer or something. But it makes sense that even if it's a feature it'd be subpar to just letting a specific gear do the work. I also did not know about the RPM button and that sounds very cool.

The sprayer is a Gearmore / Cima Venturi type sprayer, 3 point and 150 gal. I think it will be our biggest draw HP-wise. Most of our other implements -- flail mower, disc, etc -- are 5'. The hills and row layout of the vineyard aren't conducive to a bigger sprayer due to safety, so even if I try to think long into the future it doesn't seem to warrant something MUCH bigger. But the advice here from you and jeff9366 is very well taken -- time to go talk to the boss about the 7060!
 
   / New Kubota - horsepower requirements and performance
  • Thread Starter
#7  
We shall see what the OP replies as to his crop. I am assuming grapes in the Sierra Nevada, as a retired California winery worker.

Lower sprayer output means covering fewer rows of grapes, meaning more trips through the hilly vineyard, means increased labor cost.

Yes, grapes indeed. Sorry, posts # 4 and 5 posted as I was writing my response. also, now I see the bottle in your avatar ;-) where did you work?

Oosik, I hear what you're saying, but I think this sprayer is a unique situation. It relies on a certain fan speed to "atomize" the spray particles properly. So if it's not blowing at full blast, the droplet size changes and the whole thing goes to pot with regard to GPA calculations and coverage. that make any sense?

Minimum M7060 width of 73" may be an issue. M "Narrow" series will have the horsepower and width of 37" to 54", but tend to be expensive and FELs are not available.

I think 73" will be fine, rows are mostly 10'. I think our Landini is right around 6' if not a little under. The narrows are very popular in Napa and other spots where narrower rows have become the norm. they're cool but seem tippier -- we have a lot of cross contoured rows where driving is already dicy enough with a standard-width tractor.
 
   / New Kubota - horsepower requirements and performance #8  
NO question, the bigger tractor is in order here!

It will have a much better pto drive line to handle the stress of taking 50 + hp out of it continuous and the bigger frame size will be safer on hills pulling any kind of load.

SR
 
   / New Kubota - horsepower requirements and performance #9  
Looks like there is not a huge differance in price so if the size works then I would say the M7060 is the best choice. The 12 speed M7060 also comes with the E-PTO option which would be perfect for your needs as it allows 540 PTO speed at a lower RPM for increased fuel economy.
 
   / New Kubota - horsepower requirements and performance #10  
The narrows are very popular in Napa and other spots where narrower rows have become the norm. they're cool but seem tippier -- we have a lot of cross contoured rows where driving is already dicy enough with a standard-width tractor.

I am years out of date. But the narrow "vineyard" tractors from Deere I had experience with in hilly Mendocino County had relatively small wheel rims and low diameter tires to lower tractor center-of-gravity. For that you gave up ground clearance, but ground clearance was never an issue in vineyard rows. I seem to remember the Deere 100-horsepower, narrow vineyard tractors had 12" ground clearance.

Standard tractors, such as the M7060, may have an option for wheels with less than standard height/diameter. Also look into radial tractor tires, which are low height and are very broad. I expect your Sierra Nevada Kubota dealer fields these questions regularly.
LINK: radial tractor tires vs. bias - Google Search

Rear TRACKS are also a factory option on the M7060. Tracks should be considered relative to your land and Three Point Hitch load. Tracks are multiples more stable than rear wheels.



Re: Let's try this again.....
I have 20 steep acres, half in brush half forest.

When upsizing tractors I ended up with a 37hp Branson 3725, another Korean make. The 20/25 series Bransons are available with three different R4 tire/wheel combinations. The middle size ones normally come on the 3725 but I got the smaller ones, with 2" spacers added to the rear. The smaller tires lower the center of gravity, making it more stable on slopes. The tradeoff is less ground clearance. Less ground clearance hasn't been a problem for me.

Interesting.
What were your three rear tire diameter choices? I realize fronts would be proportionally sized for 4-WD.

They came with 420/70x24 R4 rears and I got 43x16-20 R4. I can't find the spec for the largest optional size.
 
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