Question on PT110 Forestry and the Kubota SVL90-2

[Furu]

I am looking at a platform for a forestry masticator. Commonly called these days in large parts of the country, a mulcher.
The PT110 Forestry is a very nice machine and is purposefully built for the job. The Kubota SVL90-2 is a new-comer to the field and is a LOT less expensive than the PT110 or any of the other competitors, Cat, Deere, Bobcat etc., but it is not designed or built specifically for the purpose (of course none of the others are either except for maybe the forestry package on the John Deere). I have read on here where some folks have purchased the Kubota for this purpose and seem to be very happy. Also have read where all models have been bad-mouthed for various reasons.

It seems from my research that the SVL90-2 belly plate can not be removed/lowered thus it is nearly impossible to keep the area clean and is thus a bit of a problem with build up and possible fire potential.
Is that true?

I was told (have not verified) that there is a problem getting insurance for the SVL90-2 for forestry applications due to this built up in the belly area of debris that can not be cleared. Is that true have any of the SVL90-2 owners had problems and how have you dealt with them? I have heard about the DPF build up but that can be cleaned with some level of diligence.

The SVL90-2 also has less protection for sensitive area from the beating that occurs while working the forest.
Any problems that you SVL owners have had in this regard?

Have read of some build quality issue where the PT110 has had issues shortly after delivery due to poor quality control. Is that true?

Any facts that you can feed me to clarify I would appreciate it.

 

[redprospector]

My Bobcat T320 has a Kubota engine in it, that's about as close as I can get to telling you anything about a Kubota.
My advice is that whatever brand of machine you choose, make sure that you have a GOOD SERVICING DEALER that is within a reasonable distance from you. It doesn't matter what brand of machine you have if your dealer doesn't make sure that you are able to keep working. It doesn't matter how good of a mechanic you are, these machines are all computer controlled, and unless you can hook it up to diagnose it, and get the parts you don't have much. A hundred thousand dollars sitting idle in someone's shop for 30 days at a time is not a good investment.
Do your homework, talk to people in this line of work who have bought from your local dealers and see how they have been taken care of.

 

[yellowdogsvc]

I don't mean to quibble but the PT110 is not a purpose built forestry machine. It's just a modified version of the others. It's not any more safe than a Bobcat with its diapers on to keep debris out. Performance-wise, it has more flow and pressure but it also has a smaller displacement engine. I think over time that will negatively affect that machine under constant load trying to put out that much flow. Heat is the enemy of mulchers.
Depending on the type of terrain, the soft undercarriage may or may not be the right choice.

I've owned and mulched with CAT 272, Bobcat s330, s750, etc. The CAT had better specs than the Bobcat but there was no production difference and the bobcat was less maintenance. CAT's a fine machine, though and a lot of the bugs I had have been worked out.

I wouldn't mulch with a Kubota.. not yet until the've been in the field longer. I think I'd wait until the series 3 came out and see what improvements they have but Kubota builds great products. If that's the only reliable dealer (and make sure that is your #1 reason for purchase because you will need it unless you have a full time mechanic) then the Kubota has an excellent motor. I've owned about 13 or 14 Kubota motors from v3300-V3800 and all were excellent and good on fuel. In fact, if it was my choice, I wouldn't power anything without a Kubota or Cummins based solely on the reliability over the last 15 years. My experience is up through tier 3. My newest machine is a 2014 but it's the Toolcat and it doesn't have the bigger displacement of the 3300 or 3800. Cat has a 3800 in it, I think, in the large frame machines.

You can't remove the belly plate on a Bobcat either. That's where side entry plates, long arms, a shop vac and copious amounts of water come in. I wash my machine every week and sometimes more when mulching. I keep the debris down before it builds up but "fluff" from mulching still finds it way in and packs hard.
You can seal up a lot of places on any machine even the Terex's. They all have places to leak dust unless they have a pressurized compartment like the big CAT mulcher has. I think it's north of $500k so it's in a different universe.. but boy is it a sweet thing. :licking:

What ever machine you decide on, if you can get a demo, do it.

Red is so right about dealer service. No service can mean dead in the water on modern machines. The EPA stuff and the software that goes with it, plus the many sensors these modern machines have, make a good dealer with the software to correct problems a necessity.

I am looking at a platform for a forestry masticator. Commonly called these days in large parts of the country, a mulcher.
The PT110 Forestry is a very nice machine and is purposefully built for the job. The Kubota SVL90-2 is a new-comer to the field and is a LOT less expensive than the PT110 or any of the other competitors, Cat, Deere, Bobcat etc., but it is not designed or built specifically for the purpose (of course none of the others are either except for maybe the forestry package on the John Deere). I have read on here where some folks have purchased the Kubota for this purpose and seem to be very happy. Also have read where all models have been bad-mouthed for various reasons.

It seems from my research that the SVL90-2 belly plate can not be removed/lowered thus it is nearly impossible to keep the area clean and is thus a bit of a problem with build up and possible fire potential.
Is that true?

I was told (have not verified) that there is a problem getting insurance for the SVL90-2 for forestry applications due to this built up in the belly area of debris that can not be cleared. Is that true have any of the SVL90-2 owners had problems and how have you dealt with them? I have heard about the DPF build up but that can be cleaned with some level of diligence.

The SVL90-2 also has less protection for sensitive area from the beating that occurs while working the forest.
Any problems that you SVL owners have had in this regard?

Have read of some build quality issue where the PT110 has had issues shortly after delivery due to poor quality control. Is that true?

Any facts that you can feed me to clarify I would appreciate it.

 

[Furu]

I don't mean to quibble but the PT110 is not a purpose built forestry machine. It's just a modified version of the others. It's not any more safe than a Bobcat with its diapers on to keep debris out. Performance-wise, it has more flow and pressure but it also has a smaller displacement engine. I think over time that will negatively affect that machine under constant load trying to put out that much flow. Heat is the enemy of mulchers.
Depending on the type of terrain, the soft undercarriage may or may not be the right choice.

I've owned and mulched with CAT 272, Bobcat s330, s750, etc. The CAT had better specs than the Bobcat but there was no production difference and the bobcat was less maintenance. CAT's a fine machine, though and a lot of the bugs I had have been worked out.

I wouldn't mulch with a Kubota.. not yet until the've been in the field longer. I think I'd wait until the series 3 came out and see what improvements they have but Kubota builds great products. If that's the only reliable dealer (and make sure that is your #1 reason for purchase because you will need it unless you have a full time mechanic) then the Kubota has an excellent motor. I've owned about 13 or 14 Kubota motors from v3300-V3800 and all were excellent and good on fuel. In fact, if it was my choice, I wouldn't power anything without a Kubota or Cummins based solely on the reliability over the last 15 years. My experience is up through tier 3. My newest machine is a 2014 but it's the Toolcat and it doesn't have the bigger displacement of the 3300 or 3800. Cat has a 3800 in it, I think, in the large frame machines.

You can't remove the belly plate on a Bobcat either. That's where side entry plates, long arms, a shop vac and copious amounts of water come in. I wash my machine every week and sometimes more when mulching. I keep the debris down before it builds up but "fluff" from mulching still finds it way in and packs hard.
You can seal up a lot of places on any machine even the Terex's. They all have places to leak dust unless they have a pressurized compartment like the big CAT mulcher has. I think it's north of $500k so it's in a different universe.. but boy is it a sweet thing. :licking:

What ever machine you decide on, if you can get a demo, do it.

Red is so right about dealer service. No service can mean dead in the water on modern machines. The EPA stuff and the software that goes with it, plus the many sensors these modern machines have, make a good dealer with the software to correct problems a necessity.

Thanks for the input. The only machine I was able to get to demo on was via a rental on a 299XHP and after 40 hours I would not buy that machine for what Kubota wants let alone what CAT wants for it. I know the buildup in the belly area on the CAT was horrible and I gave up on cleaning it out and just let the rental place do it. The tracks and undercarriage required over 2 hours of cleaning with a pressure washer and many tool implements for digging it out. It was packed in very tight and no good way to blow it through. Recovery time on the mulching head was extreme and the pitchy nature of the combo caused me to damage the seat cushions multiple times considering the terrain I was working. I am sure that it was not going to somersault over the front but the human reaction to being tossed forward in a pitching down motion when moving at less than 1/4 mph is very reactive. Traction on it was rather anemic as well, whether just dirt or dirt with CWD on it, the 299 XHP failed to maneuver very well without the tracks losing traction.

The PT110 is a pressurized cab at least according to Terex. How good the pressurization system is, is another question. The undercarriage concerns me a bit as it is so open and the track tensioner (turn buckle style) is so exposed I worry about CWD getting in and creating havoc because it is too open. Of course maybe that would allow it to just fall through and not bind up as well. Hoping that others might have insight into that.

Just like with trucks and cars, salesmen are salesmen and tell you lies and half truths to get you to buy from them.

 

[yellowdogsvc]

Thanks for the input. The only machine I was able to get to demo on was via a rental on a 299XHP and after 40 hours I would not buy that machine for what Kubota wants let alone what CAT wants for it. I know the buildup in the belly area on the CAT was horrible and I gave up on cleaning it out and just let the rental place do it. The tracks and undercarriage required over 2 hours of cleaning with a pressure washer and many tool implements for digging it out. It was packed in very tight and no good way to blow it through. Recovery time on the mulching head was extreme and the pitchy nature of the combo caused me to damage the seat cushions multiple times considering the terrain I was working. I am sure that it was not going to somersault over the front but the human reaction to being tossed forward in a pitching down motion when moving at less than 1/4 mph is very reactive. Traction on it was rather anemic as well, whether just dirt or dirt with CWD on it, the 299 XHP failed to maneuver very well without the tracks losing traction.

The PT110 is a pressurized cab at least according to Terex. How good the pressurization system is, is another question. The undercarriage concerns me a bit as it is so open and the track tensioner (turn buckle style) is so exposed I worry about CWD getting in and creating havoc because it is too open. Of course maybe that would allow it to just fall through and not bind up as well. Hoping that others might have insight into that.

Just like with trucks and cars, salesmen are salesmen and tell you lies and half truths to get you to buy from them.

Most sales guys don't do what you or I do. Some may lie but I would hope they get weeded out and fail in life. I chalk up most of the half-truths to watching a few demos or maneuvering around their lot and making judgements based on that or what they learned in training. Some sales guys, the good ones, will take you to another operator or give you their number. That's a sales guy who isn't hiding anything...my sales guy is one of the good ones.
Working outside is extreme whether you are in your back yard or 10 miles off the nearest road. Things happen. Having a reliable machine helps but EVERY machine has problems at some time or another as you know.
In deference to CAT, it sounds like your machine was de-tuned or was missing some updates. Are you sure it was in high flow? Cat had some issues with the C series not kicking into high flow when the machine was traveling. Software corrected that. Does cat still have a jumper to turn on the high flow circuit?
Were you set up with a 2 speed CAT (fae) mulcher or single speed? Single speed has much slower recovery.

I've been relatively happy with the Bobcats for mulching. Not trying to sell you a Bobcat but my compartments stay pretty clean and almost nothing big gets in with the diaper kit installed. The cab IS pressurized and most of the time the A/C will freeze you out. I'm in s. central texas. Right now it's been in the 90's with 1000% humidity!
I know you didn't ask but if you want a run down on what I've learned from mulching with Bobcats and one CAT 272 over the years, let me know here or pm me. You can probably search for some of my rants, too. Opinions do change.. I've learned some things I didn't know and fixed machines accordingly to make them better in the woods.

I'll tell you the truth and though I don't mulch full time, I mulch about a 1/3 to half the time these days.. and I've had various mulchers since 2001 and rotary mulchers before that.

 

[Friscokid320]

I have been looking at this setup for the last 5 years. I am preparing to purchase a machine and I have talked to several individuals that are in this business. I just finished a sales presentation on the Kubota SVL90-2. I have only demoed the Bobcat. I have looked and looked at machines, from Fecon to Rayco. All have their attributes, but price pretty much sums up my motivation. I didn't want to buy used as the financing is an issue. Higher rates just drive up the monthly cost. I am not looking to run this as a business just solely as a farm machine. Zimmerer Kubota in Texas has been renting the SVL90-2 with the FAE 150 head for several years. They did some modifications to the machine that were very modest in cost. They added a cover over the clean out box in front of the operators feet as they almost had an severe accident where piece of log entered the cab between the feet of the operator. It could have been disastrous. They now recommend a 1/4" steel plate over that opening to prevent this in the future. The lower plates on the CTL are removable to clean out the under belly of the machine. These are very heavy and require a floor jack to lower them. Clean out is only occasionally. The radiator is easy access and opens up for easy clean out. The machine drives very well. The air conditioning system is okay as it has only one side that has vents. This is being corrected in the newer models. I asked why Zimmerer Kubota went with the FAE heads. They spent several months looking at different companies in this field and they like the 2 speed pumps on the head. If its overloaded, it backs off the speed and reverts to torque. This allows higher productivity. They had one customer that rented on unit for 3 years. Put up to 850 hours on the machine and head and had no problems except an occasional hydraulic leak I have looked at several machines and I ask what they knew of the highest time machine out there and the 3rd manufactured SVL90 has over 6000 hours. Sounds pretty good to me. Most are getting 1500 hours on tracks as well. The second idler wheel is failing first and it is due to very sandy conditions. It is bearing failure. The SVL90-2 is very easy to work on as well. Daily maintenance is 21 grease fittings that are easy to get to, oil check, hydraulic check, fuel check, track tension check and radiator clean check. The newer models coming will have reversing fans. You don't need a forestry seal kit for this machine as this is not an issue. You do need to keep it clean as with any other machine. Abuse it and you'll pay for it. You can get a backup camera for the machine, but it has a rear view mirror. The mirror is non moveable. You don't need a hydraulic aftermarket cooler as one is built into the machine. The cooling system is the best part of this product. Most machines move coolant sideways and Kubota moves it vertically. IOW, the coolant seams run up and down vs. side to side in the radiator. This creates a higher cooling efficiency in the system. Overall, I am impressed with this machine and the price is not beatable. I was looking at a brand new 90-2 for 65K. With the head and door, out the door just at 100k. Plus, don't buy the Kubota door, take the glass out and go to a local Lexan manufacturer and have the door made to fit. $500/600. Kubota wants $3k. Hands down, Zimmerer Kubota in Denton, Texas gave me the best sales presentation I have ever had. These guys know there stuff. Talk to Sherman. Great guy and has an awesome background. So, if I can get my wife let go of the checkbook, I'm going to be in a Kubota SVL90-2 with a FAE mulcher. I have 172 acre timber tract that is so over grown that its now consider a fire hazard. Goodness gracious, I sound like a kid in a candy store.

 

[Friscokid320]

Another thing to know about the Kubota CTL's is they are mechanically controlled hydraulic pilot controls, not electrically controlled systems. Folks, I fly the Airbus 320 family aircraft. If you have a wire break some where down the line, your talking about a huge amount of time to find the culprit. A mechanical valve is so much easier to replace than hunting down an electrical issue especially if it is a bundled wiring system. A mechanical system is easy even you could change one out. You just don't have the fine control you do with electrical systems. And you can't dumb it down. IOW, its like a mouse on your computer, you can slow the action on the mouse. You can't do that with a Kubota. Don't get me wrong, you can finesse the Kubota, it just takes some practice and getting use to.

 

[RDrancher]

Here's the machine Frisco is talking about.


Mulching before and after shots.


A couple of things I'll mention when it comes to the SVL90 and running a mulcher. The loader towers are fairly open to debris. Most of the dusty stuff can be blasted out with air a couple times during the day (at lunchtime and at the end of the day), but as Yellowdog mentioned, a shopvac is pretty handy. For full-time mulching the machine could use an auxiliary hydraulic cooling system when the temperature is hovering around and above the 100* mark.

The SVL90 will be my next CTL, but I mainly push dirt. I'll continue to rent when I need to mulch.

 

[Friscokid320]

RDrancher, thank you very much for the reply. That looks very similar to the unit I will demo. I'm reading guys and doing my due diligence and I thank all input. I think the head is model UML/SSL/VT 150. RD, did you rent and run this unit. I have been looking at the Terex as well and several owners had problems with electro hydraulic pilot controls. This will be my first piece of farm equipment and I want to get the best knowledge from anyone wanting to share.

 

[Rustyiron]

This will be my first piece of farm equipment and I want to get the best knowledge from anyone wanting to share.

Wow, go big or go home! I like it:thumbsup: