Brakes again?

[windcatcher]

Hi folks.

I have a question: I have a XR3032H with FEL and backhoe. Just wanted to let you know the equipment in case there may be an issue with the extra weight.

The brakes on this tractor leave much to be desired. Yes, I push down on the locked brake pedals before setting the parking brake. That's what the owner's manual says to do.

I can park my tractor on a slight - and I mean slight slope, set the parking brake, and take my foot off the hydraulic pedals.

Very shortly thereafter, I can watch the tractor start to roll back a little bit at a time. This is even with me pulling up as hard as I possibly can to set the parking brake.

I've had the tractor in for servicing for this very issue, and they thought it was fixed. Nope, still there.

Considering how liability issues can be these days, this scares me and it scares me a lot.

Just wondering if this is an issue only my tractor has, or do other models/owners have this same issue?

You would think something like this would catch LS' eyes real quick, but they don't seem to think so.

As always, thanks in advance.

 

[ozley]

I never count on my parking brake. I drop the loader and three point if something on it and I have a gear drive so I put it in the gear.

 

[windcatcher]

I never count on my parking brake. I drop the loader and three point if something on it and I have a gear drive so I put it in the gear.

That doesn't help me much in some cases. I have an old fuel oil drum that I fuel myself with 3 - 5 gal cans of fuel. I use the tractor's FEL to lift the cans, then use a ladder to get high enough to pour it in.

That's when I noticed the parking brakes didn't work very well. The tractor kept rolling backwards from the fuel oil tank. Not fun at all, especially since I had the ladder braced against the edge of the FEL bucket.

 

[Sysop]

Parked in low range, no brake set, my HST still won't budge. I think you could drag it and the tires wouldn't turn, it even holds fine on hills. With the brake makes no difference, they still don't turn. I do set the brake on hills just as a feel good measure of redundancy, but the majority of the time I use brakes are when transporting the tractor as an extra layer of protection against it moving, same reason I double up all my chains and tie downs.

 

[windcatcher]

"Parked in low range, no brake set, my HST still won't budge." Sysop, is that with a newer model LS though? I haven't tried mine in low range. I didn't think of that, but even so, it should be rock solid IMHO, in the medium range.

 

[s219]

Not sure how the park brake works on that model, but on most tractors, it's just a ratchet/pawl setup, where the brake lever locks the pedals down in whatever position you push them down into. On my Kubota, I can press lightly on the brake pedals and set the brake for flat areas. However, if on a hill, the tractor will roll slowly with that setting. So in those cases, I press harder on the brake pedals before locking the lever, and probably get another 1-2 notches down on the ratchet with the pawl. Then it does not move at all.

You mention pulling hard on the lever, but are you sure the lever is controlling the actual braking mechanism? If it's like many other tractors, the brake pedals do the braking and the parking brake lever just holds the pedals down.

 

[Sysop]

No, but all HSTs operate generally the same, and they should all hold fine. When they don't it is because the pressures being put on it are more than the hydraulics are able to hold. Rolling indicates internal leakages from either some sort of flaw or too much pressure. Either one is a situation that cannot be allowed to continue or damage will eventually occur.

As for the range, it's sort of like parking a truck with a manual transmission, use the lowest gear you have for best rollaway prevention. The higher range it is in, the more pressure it puts on the hydro's internal seals. If they test the pressures of the system and they are within specifications, then it is an issue with the way you are parking it. Park it in low range to reduce the pressures put on the hydraulics of the transmission. If it still moves, do not accept that everything is fine, make them fix it.

 

[George2615]

I have the XR3037HC and if I apply the brakes with my foot and set the park brake it won't move. I load my tractor on a tilt bed trailer at about 15* angle and it does not move. Usually I'm in mid range but on the trailer I use low and always in 4WD.
I assume that when you are parking your are not leaving it running? If so, it could creep. I agree that with the engine off and brake on it shouldn't move.
I'm pretty sure you haven't driven it with the parking brake on. I think your safeties are like mine and would shut it down if you tried.
When you dealer serviced it and checked the brakes did they just adjust them or physically take it apart to inspect the friction discs. I would guess just adjusted. I'd say they need to take it apart to inspect internally why they don't hold.
Your dealer should contact the local LS rep about yours for a solution.

 

[windcatcher]

I had a little time over this past weekend to do some more testing and inspection.

1) Even with the HST selector in low range, I could park on the same slight slope, push down on the dual brake pedals of which are locked together, then pull up on the handbrake, all without having a foot on the hydrostatic pedals. Same thing. The tractor would slowly roll backwards whether the engine was running or not. I have to put a rubber wheel chock under one of the rear wheels to keep the tractor from rolling back any further.

I was told the mechanics adjusted the brakes, right now I'm not sure they even did that. The reason follows.

When I sent my tractor back in for servicing, the joy stick could be rotated CCW a full 360 degrees. I read about George's fix, but figured I'd let them fix it. It turns out there was some sort of pin that broke and had to be repaired. That was fixed.

Brakes not stopping tractor - still not stopping tractor.

The blue and green knobs to the right of the operators seat were badly mangled by the prior business owner when he had to remove them to repair a hydraulic leak under the seat pan. He didn't replace them.
They were supposed to be replaced when the tractor was back for servicing a third time. When I drove the tractor some this weekend I was able to get it in just the right light. You could easily see the plier teeth marks gouged into the blue and green knobs. The mangling was turned backwards so they couldn't be seen.

I now have a call into the new business owner wanting to see him at my place so I can show him the new tractor "repairs" including the rolling backwards with the parking brake on.

Needless to say, I am not a happy camper. LS does make a good tractor, but mine didn't have the quality built in many others have had.

I plan on giving the new tractor dealership owner one last chance. After that, this gets escalated.

George, thank you for your help. I didn't think anything was supposed to happen with the parking brake on. Something is wrong with my tractor.

 

[s219]

You never really addressed my suggestion, so let me try again. Do the brake pedals work to hold the tractor from rolling? If so, then the parking brake should work too as long as you press down hard enough on the pedals before locking the lever. If the brake pedals come back up, then it means the lever is not correctly locking the pedals down into place, and thus the brakes aren't being applied. You should be able to follow the lever mechanism to see where and why it's not locking the brake pedals down.

It's entirely possible the dealer did adjust the brakes, but they did not address an issue with the lever. Or perhaps you're simply not pushing down on the pedals far enough when locking the lever, thus the brakes aren't being applied enough or the lever doesn't catch.