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  1. #1
    Veteran Member TSO's Avatar
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    Massey 1648 HST Cab

    Default Trading in the LS R4041



    ... like the title says, I have her all loaded up, and I'm trading her in. It came down to me HATING the shuttle shift. Well, to clarify, I really like it for some things: plowing, grading the driveway, brush cutting, etc. But, with the amount of loader work I do, having the shuttle vs Hydrostat is awful! After only an hour or so, my left (clutch) foot is aching, my left knee is sore, and my left hand is sick of shifting Forward to Backward. So, I figured since I only have around 50 hrs, and a couple payments on her, I should look into trading her in and getting a HST.

    The nice thing about this is that it gave me the opportunity to shop-around again, and compare the other brands based on my local dealers, and my criteria. Basically, I tried to find the biggest HST Compact tractors with the best loader specs. I did not bother with John Deere or Massey, as their pricing is way too high, and their loaders are underpowered compared with the other brands. I did not include New Holland for obvious reasons. I did not include TYM or McCormick, mainly because of lack of dealer support.

    In the end, I narrowed it down to the following: LS R4041/47, Kioti DK40/50se, Mahindra 4035/5035, kubota MX5100, and Yanmar LX4500. All of these tractors are pretty close spec-wise. The Mahindra 5035 was the biggest & strongest by far, but as you'll see below, wasn't cheap!



    • Clearly, the biggest drawback for the LS is the loader LIFT height and Dump Clearance. It averages about a foot shorter than the other tractors. But, the price point is drastically cheaper than the others.
    • My closest dealer (less than 3 miles) is Kubota, and I got some time sitting on the MX5100. In case you're wondering, I didn't bother comparing the MX4700, because it doesn't come standard with telescoping 3pt arms, and uses the same loader as the 5100. I liked that the operators area was more spacious than the LS. But, I didn't like the location of some of the controls, and seemed like they weren't very well thought out at all. It also didn't come standard with remotes, and the dealer quoted $700/installed per remote.
    • I've already had seat time comparing the Kioti models and they are also more comfortable in the operators area.
    • The Yanmar dealer is close by also, and there were some things I liked about the layout of the LX series tractors, especially when it comes to built-in storage, and a 12-v outlet. But, the fit & finish wasn't that great, and it honestly didn't feel as well-built as the rest of the tractors.
    • The Mahindra's are definitely more beefy tractors. The 5035 is a beast, but consequently weights nearly 2000lbs more than the LS!


    Of course, another big factor was what they were all willing to give me on trade-in price. Being that I've only had her for a few months and 50ish hours, I knew I'd be taking a big hit. I paid $19,200 for mine... and the average trade-in they were willing to give was around $15-16k. The common response was "I know it's a nice tractor, but most people don't know about LS yet, and because of name recognition, I would have a hard time selling it used." (paraphrased).

    I tried, once again, calling the LS/Kioti dealer that I originally tried to shop with, to give them another chance to make a sale if I was going with Kioti or LS... they LITERALLY would not return my phone calls. I don't know how they (Aeschliman's equipment) stay in business.

    ---
    So anyhow, after lots of phone calls I made my decision, loaded up my tractor, and am heading to the dealership. I will post back later in the appropriate forum-section with the new tractor. It's been fun! See y'all!
    Massey 1648 HST Cab
    Previous: LS R4041/4047 & Kioti CK20S

    QA 72'' bucket * 60" Custom Grapple Bucket * QA Forks * 8' HD Back Blade * 84" HD Box Blade
    72'' Rake * WorkSaver SG-26 Stump Grinder * Middle buster plow * Wallenstein BX42s PTO Chipper
    Hustler Z Diesel 66" ZTR mower (25 hp Shibaura diesel)
    20' PJ Equipment Hauler/Trailer
    2008 F250 Crew V10 4x4



  2. #2
    Silver Member
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    Linden, Ca.
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    Husky GT2654

    Default Re: Trading in the LS R4041

    SSoooooo........... Which tractor did you get? And I guess you decided on the HST right? B.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member GManBart's Avatar
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    Belleville, MI
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    Ford 8N, LS R4047H, Massey Ferguson 241, Hustler Sport ZTR

    Default Re: Trading in the LS R4041

    Quote Originally Posted by TSO View Post
    I tried, once again, calling the LS/Kioti dealer that I originally tried to shop with, to give them another chance to make a sale if I was going with Kioti or LS... they LITERALLY would not return my phone calls. I don't know how they (Aeschliman's equipment) stay in business.
    To be fair, that's not exactly the entire picture. You spoke to them several times, and visited at least once, talked pricing, and then took your business to another dealer. That's completely your decision, and nobody should take issue with it. Around that time I happened to stop there to pick up filters, and the sales manager asked if I knew whether you ever made a decision, because they'd left you several messages, and never heard back.

    So, for whatever reason, it appears they felt like they were getting blown off, which certainly happens to folks working sales.

    After that, I can understand why they wouldn't return your calls, regardless of how/why it all happened.

    Regardless, good luck with the new rig, whatever it turns out being.

  4. #4
    Veteran Member TSO's Avatar
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    SouthEast Michigan
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    Massey 1648 HST Cab

    Default Re: Trading in the LS R4041

    Here she is... the tractor I should have bought back in February in the first place! As soon as I got it off the trailer, I removed the seat stop brackets, and I'm already working on a few other mods as well

    -5-23-13-006-jpg


    So, after making all the calls, I called the dealer that I bought the 4041 from (big thanks again to Paul's Tractor of Clio, Mich). I told him how much I hated the Shuttle. I told him that I wanted to get into a HST. Told him I had around 50 hours on it now, and that I understood I'd take a hit if I traded it in. He simply said, "what did you pay again in Feb?" I told him $19,200. He said, "I'll buy it back minus $1000." So, he gave me $18,200, which is near what I owed on it anyhow, and pretty dang fair considering I've had and USED it these last few months. He got me into the R4047H for $21,760. I know he is not making any money on the deal, and just wanted to make a customer happy, and it speaks volumes about his character.

    Anyhow... I decided to stay with LS for 1 because of that dealer, and 2, because as you can see from the little spreadsheet comparison I did, no one else can compete with the price. The LS is still the undisputed "bang-for-buck" champion in my book.

    And ironically, the little issues I had complained about with my R4041, dealing with the loader acting strange, going limp at full dump, etc... those are not present in this new 4047. Even the Quick-Attach levers operate much more smoothly than the 4041. It could have something to do with the 4041 had sat in the lot during the winter perhaps, as this one was ordered for me and arrived on the truck earlier this week. Speaking of that, his lot had easily 2-3 times the new LS tractors as he had before. He says he's selling a ton of them, and having a hard time keeping them in stock. Good for him, and good for LS!

    Oh, here's a shot of the beautiful HST pedals LOL... can't believe how much I missed having a Hydro, and how glad I am to have it back

    -5-23-13-007-jpg


    Quote Originally Posted by GManBart View Post
    To be fair, that's not exactly the entire picture. You spoke to them several times, and visited at least once, talked pricing, and then took your business to another dealer. That's completely your decision, and nobody should take issue with it. Around that time I happened to stop there to pick up filters, and the sales manager asked if I knew whether you ever made a decision, because they'd left you several messages, and never heard back.

    So, for whatever reason, it appears they felt like they were getting blown off, which certainly happens to folks working sales.

    After that, I can understand why they wouldn't return your calls, regardless of how/why it all happened.)
    Gman... he's not telling you the whole story of course. When I was originally shopping with him and trying to make a deal with him back in February, he said he wouldn't take my Kioti in on trade, but would help me "sell" it if he could find a buyer. He kept telling me he had a "guy" that was interested, and wanted me to bring it by for a "meet and greet" to see if the guy wanted it. He kept saying he'd call me back in the morning, or tomorrow, etc etc... Ultimately, he took 1-2 weeks to call me back when trying to make the deal. In that time, I found a buyer for my Kioti at a much better price than he "tried" to get me. Coupled with the fact that, even though I showed him what the other LS dealer price was for the same tractor (about $200-300 less) he wouldn't meet the price and said, "well this is our price."

    I figured I'd give their dealership another chance when trying to make this new deal. You'd think they'd be interested in taking money from anybody, but their attitudes easily dictated the outcome.

    Hey, I'm glad you had a much better experience than I did. As it is, unless my LS dealer gets out of the business and I'm forced to deal with Aeschliman's for parts/warranty work... I'll NEVER be their customer.
    Massey 1648 HST Cab
    Previous: LS R4041/4047 & Kioti CK20S

    QA 72'' bucket * 60" Custom Grapple Bucket * QA Forks * 8' HD Back Blade * 84" HD Box Blade
    72'' Rake * WorkSaver SG-26 Stump Grinder * Middle buster plow * Wallenstein BX42s PTO Chipper
    Hustler Z Diesel 66" ZTR mower (25 hp Shibaura diesel)
    20' PJ Equipment Hauler/Trailer
    2008 F250 Crew V10 4x4



  5. #5
    Elite Member
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    Sunny SW Washington
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    LS R4010 & Cub Cadet 7300

    Default Re: Trading in the LS R4041

    I have 530 hours on my R4010 and I do have some trouble with the shuttle shift, but not the problems you have. I have never had a hydro. I have, however, not had anything that shifts the same way, and I drive two tractors with completely different shift setups. I often do everything necessary to change a gear and forget to go from reverse to forward, or vice versa. I have scared myself doing that. I still don't want a hydro.
    The Corporate Empire is NOT a Constitutional Republic...
    ...but it plays one on TV.

  6. #6
    Platinum Member rwork's Avatar
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    Mississippi Gulf Coast
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    Kubota B6100 LS R3039H

    Default

    Glad to hear that you got a tractor that is going to be easy for you to operate. I love the hst on my R3039, just be careful till you get used to easing off the pedal. A quick release will stop you in your tracks! I would love to have the R4047, but I don't NEED it. It's just a bit too big for my small property.
    Enjoy that new machine, you came out smelling like a rose!!!
    2012 LS R3039H, 6' Howse HD Box Blade, 4' Root Grapple, CID Stump Bucket
    1975 Kubota B6100, Craftsman Garden Tractor, eXMark Lazer Z mower.

  7. #7
    Silver Member
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    Husky GT2654

    Default Re: Trading in the LS R4041

    SSooooo....... Does the HST have a cruise control? If yes how easy is it to use? And, is the 4047 the same physical size as the 4041? Thanks, B.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member GManBart's Avatar
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    Ford 8N, LS R4047H, Massey Ferguson 241, Hustler Sport ZTR

    Default Re: Trading in the LS R4041

    Quote Originally Posted by TSO View Post
    Here she is... the tractor I should have bought back in February in the first place!

    Hey, I'm glad you had a much better experience than I did. As it is, unless my LS dealer gets out of the business and I'm forced to deal with Aeschliman's for parts/warranty work... I'll NEVER be their customer.
    See, I suggested an R4047H back then!

    Maybe they're just scared of me....I get that from some people

  9. #9
    Veteran Member GManBart's Avatar
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    Ford 8N, LS R4047H, Massey Ferguson 241, Hustler Sport ZTR

    Default Re: Trading in the LS R4041

    Quote Originally Posted by LindenBruce View Post
    SSooooo....... Does the HST have a cruise control? If yes how easy is it to use? And, is the 4047 the same physical size as the 4041? Thanks, B.
    Yes, the HST has cruise control....once you're at the speed you want, push the button (it toggles), and let off the HST pedal. That's it. When you're ready, just push the opposite way on the button, and it's no longer engaged.

    Yes, the 4041 and 4047 are the same size. In fact, they actually have the same engine, with tuning tweaks to the 47 for more horsepower. There have been some 41s sold with slightly smaller tires, but now it seems they all come with the same size tires as the 47s get.

  10. #10
    Veteran Member TSO's Avatar
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    SouthEast Michigan
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    Massey 1648 HST Cab

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GManBart View Post

    Yes, the HST has cruise control....once you're at the speed you want, push the button (it toggles), and let off the HST pedal. That's it. When you're ready, just push the opposite way on the button, and it's no longer engaged.

    Yes, the 4041 and 4047 are the same size. In fact, they actually have the same engine, with tuning tweaks to the 47 for more horsepower. There have been some 41s sold with slightly smaller tires, but now it seems they all come with the same size tires as the 47s get.
    Precisely... Besides maybe kubota's HST+ trans, all brands HST cruise is the same, either button or lever activated, and the functionality seems the same too.

    And for what it's worth, the engine sounds and feels smoother on the 47 than it did on the 41. Maybe my 4041 was just a bit "off" or something.

    Additionally, I had recently noticed on the blue remote lever on the 4041, it didn't spring back to the center like the green one did... On this 4047, they both spring identically.
    Massey 1648 HST Cab
    Previous: LS R4041/4047 & Kioti CK20S

    QA 72'' bucket * 60" Custom Grapple Bucket * QA Forks * 8' HD Back Blade * 84" HD Box Blade
    72'' Rake * WorkSaver SG-26 Stump Grinder * Middle buster plow * Wallenstein BX42s PTO Chipper
    Hustler Z Diesel 66" ZTR mower (25 hp Shibaura diesel)
    20' PJ Equipment Hauler/Trailer
    2008 F250 Crew V10 4x4



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