4530 running rough/blue and white smoke - FYI

[cdover73]

I have been reading a lot about people having problems with their tractors (various sizes) spitting and sputtering and coughing blue and white smoke. I had the same thing happen over the weekend and thought I would post this in detail for lessons learned to all.

I used my tractor two weekends ago to clean up around the yard. It ran fine as always and had no signs of hesitation. This past weekend I drove my tractor to an elderly neighbor's house to disc his garden for him. The following is a list of what happened:

1. Tractor ran fine for the 1.5 miles I drove in 4th gear high range to get to his house. It had about 3/8 tank of fuel.
2. Started discing. Ran in 3rd gear low range about 2500 rpm's.
3. Got about 3/4 way finished when all of a sudden the tractor started billowing white smoke and was missing like crazy.
4. First thought was the KSB, but was funny it just started doing it. Then I thought maybe water being the tank was getting low.
5. Called my dealer. Was informed to pull the KSB to see if it still ran rough.
6. It did.
7. Called dealer back and talked to a mechanic.
8. Mechanic told me it was trash in the fuel line. He had "seen it a hundred times".
9. Instructed me to take it loose from the first filter and see if I had good flow. Then continue to the tank making sure to clean the line out real good after taking it off the petcock.
10. Limped the tractor home and started his instructions.
11. When I took the line loose at the first filter I had a steady stream of fuel but it was only about the size of a pencil lead.
12. Took the line loose at the petcock. Again pencil lead stream.
13. Made sure the line was clean. It was.
14. Unscrewed the petcock from the nipple at bottom of the tank.
15. Still only a small stream straight out of the tank. This was weird!
16. Unscrewed the nipple from the bottom of the tank and was immediately covered in a flood of diesel!
17. The nipple has a small filter on it about 3" long. It was fully clogged with what looked like dirt or grass residue.
18. Blew the filter off with some carb cleaner and put everything back.
19. The tank was already drained and I didn't want to remove it to flush it so I just added fresh fuel.
20. With everything back together I hit the primer a couple times and fired it up.
21. At first, it still ran rough and belched smoke randomly.
22. It leveled off and I let it run to operating temps.
23. Ran the disc through my garden for about 30 mins. It leveled off and ran perfect.

In summary, I never would have known about the filter in the tank until my dealer told me about it. I also never would have guessed that would cause it to run like it did. I think the sputtering after I got it all back together was from what may have been left in the fuel filters, which still makes me think I had both trash and water problems.

Anyway, I hope this helps with some of your problems. Information like this is worth its weight when it is happening and you can't find out why. Not saying this will be the cause every time, but it sounded to me like it was a common find for the dealer mechanic.

[BobG_in_VA]

Your 2. where you said you were running at 2500 rpm....

I was under the impression that that engine (3 cyl version of the 6000's 4 cyl engine) turns about 2050 rpms at PTO speed.....I hardly ever get to even 1800 on my 6000...just wondering if your tach may be off....like a bunch...BobG in VA

[cdover73]

You're right. I meant to say 2000 not 2500. I don't know off hand exactly where my PTO speed is but I do know it's over 2000. I generally try to select a gear and range that allows proper forward speed without bogging at PTO rpm. But that's only when I'm actually working it like when discing. Most other times I have a bad habit of lugging.

Thanks for the catch!

[Midsouth]

The rough running after everything was back together could have also been a little air in the system. Sometimes it will take a few minutes to clear out.

[rback33]

Originally Posted by Midsouth

The rough running after everything was back together could have also been a little air in the system. Sometimes it will take a few minutes to clear out.

That was my thoughts as well. It had been starving for fuel for a while and it took a little while to get the system purged.

[cdover73]

I may be missing your reasons for the air theory. When I took the line loose I only drained the tank, not the fuel filters. They were still full. When I reconnected everything I made sure the petcock was fully open and let the fuel run through the line. Then, I pumped the primer a few times until it got hard before trying to crank it. The primer is on the 2nd bowl(from the tank) which I didn't fool with at all. The fuel that was in it should have still been in it, all the way to the injectors. When everything was put back there could only have been maybe a bubble of air in the top of the 1st bowl. The rest should have been purged.
It never has run like that before, even when I completely removed both bowls to change the filters, which would allow the entire system to be open to air. After it was put back together and primed it always fired right up and never sputtered. How could it be any different this time?
When I mentioned it ran rough for the first few minutes I meant it had a noticeable miss and would randomly puff white smoke like it didn't fire on that cylinder. The same thing it was doing when I was discing. It wasn't what you're describing when the system is trying to purge air. I know what that sounds like. This was different.

Just trying to make sure I'm not missing something.

[BobG_in_VA]

I know this is gonna sound dumb, but are you sure that your fuel tank is venting properly...back a few years there was an issue with the fuel caps not venting properly on the "00" series tractors. I know mine would run fine but when I tried to "uncork" the tank I got that "whooosshh" of a vacumn...the combo of trash and vacumn could cause too little fuel to reach the engine...just a thought. Therefore, try and run it stationary with the fuel cap off...see what happens. BobG in VA

[jpm1]

I'm no expert when it comes to engines but one thing I have learned is low sulfur fuel can be a problem. At the company I work for we have a number of new Cat engines, which are a problem because of the emissions systems. They smoke bad! no power! cough, buck and you would think you were on a bucking bronc. Our mechanics say its the fuel, so we let them warm up and after 150 degrees it runs better and at 180 its great. I think its Auto Zone sells some additive to put in the fuel which should help some but its no excuse for dirty fuel. I filter all my fuel coming from my bulk tank and I change my filters on a regular basis. I keep extras on hand and I have had no problems as to this time. My realitives have had your same symptoms and have had to do the same thing but I am a real "clean freak" when it comes to fuel.

[cdover73]

Originally Posted by BobG_in_VA

I know this is gonna sound dumb, but are you sure that your fuel tank is venting properly...back a few years there was an issue with the fuel caps not venting properly on the "00" series tractors. I know mine would run fine but when I tried to "uncork" the tank I got that "whooosshh" of a vacumn...the combo of trash and vacumn could cause too little fuel to reach the engine...just a thought. Therefore, try and run it stationary with the fuel cap off...see what happens. BobG in VA

Not dumb at all. Actually it was the first thing I did when I saw the pencil lead size stream of fuel coming out of the hose when I broke it loose. Thinking the tank may be pulling a vacuum, I reached up and took the cap off. Unfortunately, it wasn't.

[cdover73]

Originally Posted by jpm1

I'm no expert when it comes to engines but one thing I have learned is low sulfur fuel can be a problem. At the company I work for we have a number of new Cat engines, which are a problem because of the emissions systems. They smoke bad! no power! cough, buck and you would think you were on a bucking bronc. Our mechanics say its the fuel, so we let them warm up and after 150 degrees it runs better and at 180 its great. I think its Auto Zone sells some additive to put in the fuel which should help some but its no excuse for dirty fuel. I filter all my fuel coming from my bulk tank and I change my filters on a regular basis. I keep extras on hand and I have had no problems as to this time. My realitives have had your same symptoms and have had to do the same thing but I am a real "clean freak" when it comes to fuel.

I only use #1 fuel from the pumps. I cringe when I see people pulling their trailered tractor up to the farm grade tank at my local store! That said, I'm still curious to find out where the trash came from that I found on my tank filter. Had to be coming through the vent in the cap. I clean around the neck before removing the cap every time. The fuel container is made sure to be clean before I fill it. And I don't leave the cap off any longer than it takes to add fuel. Go figure...

With the problem I originally posted about, the tractor actually ran worse the hotter it got, not better.