2615 Start problem - No glow plug light

[jwaltert2009]

My 2615 has been working fine. One day the glow plug indicator light didn't come on when I turned the key. The engine cranks fine and the engine would fire a couple of times and stop. The glow plug light fuse is not blown. I tested the switch and get voltage from the correct terminals when the key is turned. I also get voltage at the glow plug controller (which is not the controller in the 2615 repair manual, but is the controller in the 2516 manual (go figure), according to one of the online parts stores). I replaced the controller but that didn't fix the problem. The dealer is backed up but he said he "would try to work it in." Before I rent an equipment hauler to take the tractor to the dealer, I'm hoping someone can help me out. The dealer said he had never come across this problem.

 

[George2615]

Are you in a warm climate area or had the engine been running a short time before? Perhaps the glow plugs were not required. Once mine is warmed up or has been running the glow plug light does not come on.

When you say it fired then stopped did it run any length of time or did you stop it?

You might want to pull the glow plug and check the resistance of each as well. Mine is going on 5 years now and I replaced my glow plugs about 3 years ago. Only had one of 3 working at the time. If yours have shorted or have an open circuit you may not get a light.

 

[jwaltert2009]

Thanks George for your reply. To answer your first question about temperature. Today it about 70. When I crank the starter the engine seems to fire a couple of times and then quits. There is black exhaust which leads me to believe that it is getting fuel.

There does appear to be a short, or several shorts. I disconnected the wire to the glow plugs and also removed the strap the connects the plugs together. I get a short on every plug and also on the feed wire. It seems very strange that the tractor would be starting fine with no problems and then all of a sudden the feed wire and the plugs all short out.

Or, and I just thought of this, are the glow plugs grounded (so would appear to be shorted out) when not being told to warm up the cylinder? I didn't remove the plugs to test them. I just put the tester on the terminal.

Also, why wouldn't the glow plug indicator fuse blow if there was a short? Is there a fuse for the glow plugs themselves?

The temperature sender wire is in the same cable bundle and I had noticed no problem.

 

[George2615]

Sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday, had a busy day that started at 4AM and got done at 8PM. A quick bite and right to bed.
If you have taken off the connecting strap and feed wire you need a good ohm meter to check them. A cheapie meter may show you a short to ground. A good digital meter will give you an ohm reading if the plug is good. On my meter set on the 20K scale I read 2.08 on a good plug. Check each one to ground and readings should be similar. If it still reads 0 then it is shorted.
You don't need to remove them to test, just connect one meter probe to engine ground and the other to the threaded stud at the top of the plug. You can also test by removing them.

Use the DC volt scale and the feed wire should have battery voltage when the key is turned on for the few seconds the timer stays on.

On mine I had 1 working plug (with the 2.08 reading), 1 shorted plug (meter went right to 0), and 1 open plug (open meaning the ohm meter did not change whether connected to the plug or not).

There is a fuse for the glow plug indicator lamp, its a 10A labeled as fuse A in the fuse box.

At 70 degrees the tractor should have started without needing glow plugs.

I saw on another thread that if you use a high boost battery charger (the kind with a jump start position) never crank it over or try to start it with it on since the high boost position could damage or burn out the glow plugs. I don't know if this is true but Its possible.

 

[jwaltert2009]

My ohmeter cost about $70 at Home Depot so I would hope it would give good readings. On my meter if you touch the two probes together, the meter buzzes. Maybe I need to test the meter across a known resistance, just to make sure it is working. You said your meter was set on the 20K scale and measured about 2, which would mean 40,000 Ohm resistance. Is this correct?

Here's the latest. When I tested the feed wire to the plugs with the key on, it tests 0 volts. When I disconnect the wire to the plugs and at the controller, the wire tests a short. I guess the wire could have worn through, but I find it hard to believe.

Do you know if the feed wire is connected to anything between the glow plugs and the glow controller? Note that I keep using the term "controller" instead of "relay" or "timer." This controller is not on the parts list for a 2615 (at least on one of the parts websites). Rather, it is listed for the 2516.
Don't know if this makes a difference or not.

I have ordered a service manual and hopefully it has circuit diagrams in it for the electrical.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[George2615]

You need an ohm meter that reads out a resistance number either analog or digital, not a continuity one that buzzes. One that buzzes only shows continuity and you get continuity through any resistor. I don't know if yours has an actual meter function. HF sells a cheap AC/DC digital amprobe meter has an ohm meter that will read resistance and costs about 15 bucks.
I bought the parts and service manuals that cover 15 series tractors. It lists the glow plug relay as #MM431-28201, controller/timer as #31A66-05100, and plugs as #31A66-03201. The service manual has schematics.
I mentioned earlier that the glow plug indicator fuse is fuse A (10A) also the glow plug relay and timer is on fuse B (10A). Fuse B also serves the alternator, fuel pump, indicator light, and etr solenoid.
According to my parts book the 2015, 2615, and 3015 all use the same relay, 2015 and 2615 use the same controller/timer,(3015 is different and has separate controller and timer). all 3 use different plug #s. I attached a partial drawing for the glow plug circuit, maybe it can help you.

 

[jwaltert2009]

My controller part number is 30H66-02300, which according to the parts catalog on bluevalley.com is for a 2516 not a 2615, but I've got a 2615. I checked the lamp fuse but I'd better check all the fuses (duh). I'll have to check my meter. When I bought it, is assumed the ohm meter gave actual readings, not continuity check.

 

[PBinWA]

My 2615 has been working fine. One day the glow plug indicator light didn't come on when I turned the key. The engine cranks fine and the engine would fire a couple of times and stop. The glow plug light fuse is not blown. I tested the switch and get voltage from the correct terminals when the key is turned. I also get voltage at the glow plug controller (which is not the controller in the 2615 repair manual, but is the controller in the 2516 manual (go figure), according to one of the online parts stores). I replaced the controller but that didn't fix the problem. The dealer is backed up but he said he "would try to work it in." Before I rent an equipment hauler to take the tractor to the dealer, I'm hoping someone can help me out. The dealer said he had never come across this problem.

Is your fuel pump turning on? Perhaps your fuel pump isn't working? You should hear it running with your key turned to the first postion (what ever it is called).

 

[George2615]

My 2615 is a 2004. Unless the part number I listed has been superceded by a new number (such as yours) its the wrong controller. A 3015 uses a 30H66-03200 relay (different from your 30H66-02300) and a separate controller. And as Paul said check to see if your fuel pump comes on when you turn the key. Its tied in with the second fuse B with the plug relay. No fuel pump will give similar symptoms to what you have.

PS, I went to bluevalleytractor site and found the 2615 controller listed as part # 31A6605100. The 30H66-02300 you listed is for a 2516.

 

[jwaltert2009]

I checked all the fuses and none are blown.

I thought about the fuel pump, especially when it wouldn't start when the outside temp was 70. I do not hear the fuel pump running. At least there used to be a clicking sound, which I assumed was the fuel pump, which I don't hear. The fuse for the fuel pump does not appear to be blown.


The part number I gave you is taken from the part that was originally installed and has been working fine since I bought the tractor, which I think was in 2005. There was a change in the glow plug electronics, which based on the serial number on my tractor (26G050771730), was implemented a few thousand units earlier than mine.

I appreciate you sending me the schematic. Unfortunately, because of the change in electronics, it doesn't match what is installed on my tractor.