4110 4wd broke - i think - how to verify ?

[aries12345]

I think the 4wd part broke today. The only check I could think of to verify this was to have it in 4wd and lift the front wheels up off of the ground with the fel and see if they would spin freely. I would think if the 4wd was engaged the front wheels would not spin.

could someone verify or suggest a better way ?

tks in advance

[Patches]

Your front wheels will spin in any case as the front differential is an "open" design. A better check would be to jack the rear wheels off the ground using a trolley type jack, and in 4 WD, try to move tractor utilizing the engine. If the tractor moves, you have no problem

[LAWALLSTRACTOR]

Originally Posted by aries12345

I think the 4wd part broke today. The only check I could think of to verify this was to have it in 4wd and lift the front wheels up off of the ground with the fel and see if they would spin freely. I would think if the 4wd was engaged the front wheels would not spin.

could someone verify or suggest a better way ?

tks in advance

It would work better to raise the rear of the tractor and try to spin a rear wheel. Shift the 4 WD lever in and out and you should notice a difference in resistance, when turning the rear wheel.
What symtoms are you noticing to make you think you have a problem?

[aries12345]

Thanks to all for the responses.

Further info:

I was pushing dirt and grubbing when I heard a pop. I know the feel of the tractor when grubbing, etc in 4wd vs 2wd and while the lever is in 4wd it now feels the same in either drive position.

This morning i removed and examined the front shaft. It is ok. While I had the front shaft off I put the tractor in 2wd and could easily spin the stub at the front of the transmission. I could not spin it when I put it in 4wd.

With both front wheels on the ground I checked the stub on the front axle. It spins easily with little resistance.

Tks

[skipmarcy]

Probably popped a front axle - but also could be several other items in the front drivetrain. The axles aren't that expensive and I got to where I could change one in about 20 minutes, just that the final drive is pretty heavy and awkward. It's very difficult to tell which axle is broken by spinning a wheel unless the break is rough enough to "growl" a little when you turn it by hand. Out of the 10 or so axles I've broken in mine over the last 7 years, it seems the left one broke more often. I have also broken 2 countershafts in a final drive - same symptoms as a broken axle. Once you get the final drive off the tractor you can check it by hand if you see that your axle is good. The one other thing that happened to me was the studs for the ring gear in the front differential broke - same symptoms as the other items above. Luckily it didn't break anything else and the repair wasn't expensive, just time-consuming. I keep a new axle and countershaft on hand for mine at all times, Galen on here can get you the parts you need when you find out what's broken.

[aries12345]

tks skipmarcy for the help. No growls or other unusual sounds in the front assembly. At this point I figure I'll just remove the whole assembly and start from there.

[skipmarcy]

Originally Posted by aries12345

tks skipmarcy for the help. No growls or other unusual sounds in the front assembly. At this point I figure I'll just remove the whole assembly and start from there.

Just got a chance to check the forum again since my last post, hope you didn't have take your whole front axle assy out of the tractor. It's much easier and quicker to repair on the tractor unless you have a differential broken, even if you remove the wrong side first. I use my loader to raise the tractor up, put jack stands under the frame - not the axle, you want it to be able to pivot. Take the wheel off and the axle will pivot to the opposite side due to the weight difference. This way all you lose is the 90w out of the one final drive you are removing, not the whole axle housing. Take a "pickle fork" and remove the tie rod from the final drive. put a floor jack under the drive and remove the 6 bolts that hold it to the axle housing and carefully slide it out off the dowel pins. If the axle shaft is broken the drive will come free right after you clear those short dowel pins. If it's not broken, the axle will still be holding the final drive up, it takes a few more inches to slide it off the axle. The axles break right where the splines stop and the major diameter of the shaft starts, maybe 3 or 4 inches from the outside end of the axle. If the axle is OK, let the final drive sit there on the jack with the axle still stuck in it and try turning the axle flange with your hand - the flange that the wheel bolts to. If a countershaft is broken, you'll be able to turn the flange and the axle won't try to turn. If all appears good, just slide the final drive back on and bolt her down and try the other side. You'll only lose a few ounces of 90w this way. If the axle is broken, the spline end will be "stuck" in the final drive, a good magnet will pull it out, just the 90w making it a little stiff. The long portion of the axle will be in the axle housing, simply grab it with your hand and slide it right out, slide the new axle in. Like I said before, I can do one in about 20 minutes including topping the oil back up. If a countershaft is broken inside the final drive, you'll have to drain the 90w out of it and get it on the ground or bench for disassembly. Very simple to disassemble the final drive and replace the shaft, the thing is just so heavy and awkward to fool with. Hope your repair goes well !!

[SPYDERLK]

Originally Posted by skipmarcy

The axles break right where the splines stop and the major diameter of the shaft starts, maybe 3 or 4 inches from the outside end of the axle.

Could you post a picture of a new axle? I believe you could make them last a lot longer if you blended the spline to shaft transition area by grinding with a flapwheel [preferably while spinning the axle on a lathe]. The quick strength transition and sharp edges of the spline teeth are causing a stress riser and cracking the shaft, I bet.
larry

[skipmarcy]

Originally Posted by SPYDERLK

Could you post a picture of a new axle? I believe you could make them last a lot longer if you blended the spline to shaft transition area by grinding with a flapwheel [preferably while spinning the axle on a lathe]. The quick strength transition and sharp edges of the spline teeth are causing a stress riser and cracking the shaft, I bet.
larry

I'll try to get a pic on here Monday sometime. The manufacturer does some sort of heat process right at this area too, the pics should show that discoloration, I hope. The breaks are always very clean and don't show signs of twisting stress, just a clean snap. Maybe they are making that area too hard and thus brittle with the heating they do. The tolerances in the shaft and splined bearing in the final drive are very close and smooth as a baby's butt, and the shaft into the differential is all nice and smooth with no detectable slop, I'm quite certain the shaft is extremely well supported when in service. The final drive is quite tightly dowelled onto the axle housing so no way to get anything in a bind. I've always thought the whole front axle assy. on the tractor was very heavily built and it amazed me that these axles broke as much as they do.