Help w/ models please

[Slippy]

I am thinking about a MF tractor, something in the 75 to 80 pto hp range cab, loader, 4wd, power shuttle (no clutch) to use in my hay operation. Could someone explain some of the major differences in these machines. I have spoken with some dealers and they have talked about these models:

400 series
500 series that replaced the 400
3600 series but only has three cylinders (3645 75pto)
5400 series nice! but $ (5445 75pto)

In looking at the tractors the 5445 seems real nice, has all the features, nice engine, trans, has the remote valve on the loader for my grapple, and overall a great machine. But, the price seems high compared to like a Kioti DK90 or TYM700 or 903.

What could one expect to pay for the 5445 and does Massey have any special deals going on? Good time to buy?

Correct me if I am wrong, but the other 3 series seems to provide similar hp, but I am not sure about performace given the displacement sizes and number of cylinders. I do about 800 to 1200 round bales a year, and moving them is a tuff operation with my shuttle shift tractor I am using now.(By the way, no cab...hot, dusty and cold in winter when folks want hay.)

So is the 5445 worth the extra $? Resale, will I lose as much percentage wise with a 5445 as the other series.

How long has the 5400 series been on the market? I found a 5460 for about 40K w/loader, 500 hrs., is that a fair price?

Thanks!

 

[agcodealer]

The 5400 Series is the top-of-line full featured tractor with all the bells and whistles. Power Shuttle transmission with Clutchless shifting of both ranges and powershifts. 4 Ranges and 4 Powershifts so 16F x 16R. The 5400 series has been a very popular model and the tractor has evolved from the 4200 series. Designed for Maximum Operator Comfort, Convience and Efficiency. It costs more but it has alot more modern technology built in.

500 Series is a simplified tractor. Mechanical control of three point, remotes, transmission, etc. It's a valued price due to the simplicity. Not as plush of a cab but a time proven design that has evolved from the 200 Series to the 400 Series and now 500 Series. Less Bells and Whistles means it costs less to build and with time proven technology.

Some like a Chevrolet and some like a Cadillac. 500 Series is the Chevrolet. the 5400 is the Cadillac. We sell both, some want simplicity and a lower price and other customers want the latest and greatest. You can have your choice.

 

[MFRED]

Slippy,
I don't want to bombard you with answers, but I feel qualified to answer your questions on these MF tractors. I'll give you my brief description of the three series.

500 Series, Bare Bones. Reliable tractors made with 40 year old technology. Good old Perkins engines. The cab will keep you cool in the summer & warm in the winter. Manual levers & simple switches. The kind of tractor most anyone with a little knowledge could fix.

3600 Series, Middle of the road. I Compare it to the JD 5000 series. Starting to get some options in there. Power Shuttle, Push button FWD, Diff lock & PTO. Litte bit nicer cab, cloth seat, better finish. 3 cyl SISU engines, nothing to worry about. In my opinion, SISU will be the engine in all AGCO's tractor before long. Makes Sense as they own the engine company. Some computer controled stuff. Still most could fix, but you would want service manual as there are calibrations & such.

5400 Series, Top of MF's line under 100hp. The smaller tractors will have a Perkins. Best transmission in this size tractor. Many options, heavier than the other tractors, many more creature comforts. Great cab, very roomy, very nice finish to it. More computer controlled. You certainly need a manual on these.

Now, I may be biased, however, if you do some research, I think you'll find the MF 5400 will hold a better resale than the 500 series and probably the 3600 series. They are more popular. I would think the resale would be better against the TYM and Kioti also. Look at, drive, demo, just climb all over the tractors you look at. There is more to a machine than the numbers the sales guys put in the brochures. Most importantly, know & trust the dealer.

 

[Slippy]

I have now been out and kicked the tires of the MF models and the TYM 903. Both very nice tractors, drive and operate nice. The TYM is new, but the MF were used. A new MF in this size would be 10 to 15k more than a new TYM 903. I can probably find a used MF for close to the money of a new TYM, maybe a little less.

I like both the tractors. I actually think the TYM is built a little better and has more features, but then again, what was available was used MF compared to new TYM.

Here is the question: Would one be better off to spend 6 to 7k more for a new TYM, or 6-7k less for a used MF 5455 with about a 1000 hrs on it? They both have power shuttle, but neither one has power shift. That feature is manual on both. I am a little confused on this point with MF 5455 becasue I thought it came standard with the Dyna-4 trans, and power shift. But the used 5455 I have been looking at 2004 model does not have the power shifter, it is manual like the TYM. The joystick on the MF is also located up next to the front glass instead of back in or toward the right side console. Not nearly as comfortable.

Interestingly, the TYM loader is skid steer compatable. All of my current skid steer attachments will fit. With the MF, they will not fit, and the dealer told me that MF does not make an adapter for that size loader, which means I have to buy new attachments.

I don't care for the 3pt arms on the TYM. They use that ball system that you have to put on the pin of the implement.

I also read on another board people complaining about the 5455 pulling a load on a hill, lack of power problems. Is that really an issue.

So...what do you Massey experts think?

 

[agcodealer]

I would look at resell values not just Massey but any major brands retain resell value and are listed in the official trade guides. Many of the short line brands are not listed and many have come and gone and as a dealer if I trade for a shortline brand I'm going to buy it right (in my favor). Just telling you the truth. They can be very limited to re-market. If it is a major brand re-selling is much easier and I can trade better (allow more) since I have resources that allow me to see what they are bringing thru the Guides 2000 Official Trade Guide and ways to wholesale if all else fails and recoup my investment.

I can tell you the investment to be a dealer are tremendous for a Major Brand but we get alot in return. Training, Training and More Training. My service techs are factory trained thru a very rigorous program at regional schools, on-line training and more. Parts, Sales, Administration and all areas of the dealership are trained. It's an investment by us to make sure you get the level of service and knowledge resources to optimize your purchase. It's not just about moving iron.

Many look at these as value added features. I can tell you the stability financialy of the organization is very high. AGCO Corporation (MF Parent Company) is a very solid and stable company dedicated 100% to the Agriculture market. They are one of the few that has seen great growth year-to-year and with positive financial results. THese positive financial results return to increased Research and Development. AGCO Corp is spending industry record dollars to bring new products. These are some items to consider when looking at price difference. Also look at the support network of parts facilities and amount they handle. There are over 1 million active parts in the AGCO Parts System to support new to heritage equipement. They have alot of parts for 30, 40, 50 and even 60 year old machines in-stock.

It's your money and your investment but you need to look at the price and investment and what you get in return. It's not just iron it's the complete package of resources and support.

 

[Slippy]

I wish you were closer to me. You speak like dealers and companies should act. I don't know you, but I'm sure you are a fine dealer and subscribe to what you say.

What you have said is part of what I am considering. Investing thousands of dollars in a product that does not have a great deal of support, no dealers that have been around for years, no local parts departments that stock parts, big question about resale, etc., all of the part that is bothering me. Any tractor would be fine as long as nothing goes wrong with it. I took a chance years ago when Mahindra came on the US market. It has been an absolute work horse. I have not needed any major repairs. But, the dealer close to me went out of business, and now to have any major service if I need it, is 2 1/2 hrs away from me. But then again, there really is not much difference in these tractors, Perkins, Cat, etc engines, transmissions are basically the same, axles, etc. Any competent mechanic can do the occasional fix it stuff. Although, with the new technology, touch buttons, electronic stuff, it is a different world. I'm not even sure the TYM dealer has a full time mechanic. He has sold numerous units, and claims there simply have not been any significant issues other than lose hose, light, etc.

I did ask the same question of both the MF dealer and the TYM dealer...if I come back in a year and decide to trade this in, will I get my money back? The MF dealer said yes, no question. The TYM dealer could not answer the question. So, if I, or when I decide to trade or sell, you make a very valid point. But, then again, I can't buy a new MF 5455 for $45k either. I would pay around 60k.

Tough call.

 

[agcodealer]

Thanks for the kind words.

Your local Massey dealer should have the same access to training and after-sales support as we do. Parts, Service Support etc. We all get charged training fees to keep mechanics up-to-date on the latest in technology. Massey builds their own product and spends alot of time on test fields putting excessive hours trying to find future issues or concerns to make the tractors better. This adds costs but also adds value to the product. There's alot of costs that add to the value but this is why the majors cost more but also offer more.

I'm impressed with you as a customer looking at the total package verusus just the price. I have sign in our dealership that is a quote from English Philosper John Ruskin: "If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run. If you do that you have enough to pay for something better."

 

[slowzuki]

The 2004 5400 series was available with as basic as manual transmission and manual shuttle shift. It still is elsewhere in the world but I think is optioned to fit the 3600's into the lineup.

I'll tell you this, I wouldn't buy a used TYM tractor. But I'm looking for a 4200/4300/5400 series Massey on the used market.

 

[Wobblin-Goblin]

It may not matter to you one way or another, but I own a TYM and a MF.

(or, more correctly, "owned" a TYM. I just sold it yesterday).

The TYM had a few things going for it: Aside from the seat, there was nothing on the tractor that wasn't stout or rugged. It also had some nice features that were standard (rear hydraulic remotes, skid-steer quick attach loader, etc).

However, the thing that ticked me off more than anything was my dealer dropped the line not long after I purchased the tractor from him. I made it a point to buy off him because he was local and the warranty was excellent (five years). He wouldn't even order parts for me after dropping TYM. I had questions about maintenance and he wouldn't call back to answer. Boy, that pi$$ed me off. Anyway, I sold it yesterday and took a beating on it.

As far as my MF, it is a 1540 that is just over one year old. What a nice machine. The Powershuttle works nicely and the 1525 loader is well built, too. This tractor is very quiet, btw. It is the quietest tractor I've ever operated. Everything is laid out efficiently and I have no complaints whatsoever with this 1540.

Personally, I think TYMs aren't as "polished" or refined as Masseys are. The dealer network stinks for TYM, too. If I were to purchase another tractor I would seriously consider MF before any other manufacturer.

 

[Slippy]

Wobblin-Goblin:
Thanks for the imput, and it does matter to me and appriciate your taking time to provide information. What model TYM did you have? What part of the US are you in? When you say beating, what does that mean? Did you advertise and sell yourself, or trade in?

I have checked out both the TYM and the MF. They both are very nice machines. There are some things I like alot about each and some I don't. I have notices smaller things on the MF do not seem to be as well built. I have looked at a few used MF and those items seem to have worn poorly, such as the brake handles attached with rivits that are loose, the window handles. They are just small things. I did drive the 3600 series MF. Thought it was a little loud and the power shift button did not work. It had about 900 hrs on it. On the TYM side, I just can't find any used to compare.
It is unfortunate that your dealer went out of buisness. That happened to me with my Mahindra. But, the product was still good. I have talked with various TYM dealers across the country to get an idea of the warranty claims, problems, etc., and have not found any negative comments.

It also does not appear you are critical of the equipment, rather, your dealer bailed, and you did not get a good price on resale. The resale is certainly an important issue, and one that continues to concern me.
Thanks again.