massey 135 advice

[beer_me]

I am thinking about buying a 135 diesel from a friends dad? It has been a while since i have seen it but i know it has a FEL and might come with a couple 3-point attachments. I know it has not been started in at least 12-14 years (maybe 20 or more) but has been kept in a closed barn since the day they parked it because the water pump went bad.

I figure it will need water pump, battery, tires, some wiring (mice), and all new fluids before it is even runnable. What else would be things i need to keep in mind when or if he gives me a price? I have not talked to him but if he is willing to sell it what would be a good price? I would like to get a good deal on it but also give him a fair price.

I figure since it has been parked for so long the hours should be low but im also worried about the motor being locked up and anything rubber being dried out and cracked.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

For starters.....Seals and gaskets, condensation in engine and tranny, good chance the clutch will be stuck, chance the engine will be stuck, the entire fuel system will be in dire need of help.....

 

[beer_me]

So................................what am i looking at?

Im looking for a winter project for next year and im not new to fixing old junk, thats pretty much how i buy the toys i have. Would this be a lost cause or does it sound like a worth while project?

What would something like this be worth? If i get it cheap enough I have no problem putting a couple thousand $$ and some time in front of the wood burner working on it.

 

[flusher]

I am thinking about buying a 135 diesel from a friends dad? It has been a while since i have seen it but i know it has a FEL and might come with a couple 3-point attachments. I know it has not been started in at least 12-14 years (maybe 20 or more) but has been kept in a closed barn since the day they parked it because the water pump went bad.

I figure it will need water pump, battery, tires, some wiring (mice), and all new fluids before it is even runnable. What else would be things i need to keep in mind when or if he gives me a price? I have not talked to him but if he is willing to sell it what would be a good price? I would like to get a good deal on it but also give him a fair price.

I figure since it has been parked for so long the hours should be low but im also worried about the motor being locked up and anything rubber being dried out and cracked.

I bought a 1964 MF-135 diesel in July05 for $3600. It didn't look pretty, but it runs fine and the pto and hydraulics work OK.

If the engine is stuck on the 135 you're looking at, then, despite it's reputation as one of the best of the classic tractors, it's just another 40+ year old piece of iron that won't run. And if the engine won't start, then you can't check out the clutch, tranny, pto and hydraulics. So you're really flying blind and looking at a possible pig in the poke that's going to cost you big time to fix.

I wouldn't offer more than $700 unless you can get it running before deciding to buy.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

So................................what am i looking at?

Im looking for a winter project for next year and im not new to fixing old junk, thats pretty much how i buy the toys i have. Would this be a lost cause or does it sound like a worth while project?

What would something like this be worth? If i get it cheap enough I have no problem putting a couple thousand $$ and some time in front of the wood burner working on it.

Worst case scenario, you have an engine with a core value of $500 to $1000, and associated tranny, rear end, hydraulic, and sheet metal that can be parted out for another $1000. I doubt EVERYTHING went bad just sitting, unless it was outside in the elements. In any event, you have AT LEAST $1500 worth of parts, maybe quite a bit more.

In pristine condition, everything fixed RIGHT, that tractor would bring $5000 to $6000 here. So lets work backwards from there. If the engine is locked up, and in need of overhaul, figure $2000 off the top. Injector pump needing rebuild or replacement? $1000 will evaporate right before your eyes. New clutch? Figure another $400 if done with an engine overhaul, or $800 if the engine isn't already out of the tractor. Hydraulic system rebuild, typically $400 or $500, if it needs a new (re-man) pump, as much as $1500. Tires can be a deal breaker. At todays prices, a good set of 13.6X28's will exceed $750, front 6.00X16's, maybe $125, add for tubes another $100 for all 4. Or, luck on to a set of used tires at a good price and save a pocket full. Paint, wiring, gauges, incidentals, maybe another $500+

So, it would be EASY to sink in the neighborhood of $4000 into bringing it up to a $6000 tractor. Possibly as much as a $5000 bill. And that's with a lot of the labor falling on you. You can see now why it's important to be able to determine just what sort of condition the major components are in before diving headfirst into the shallow end of the pool.

I've dragged home a few 135's, 150's and 165's that had simular histories. Typically, the cost to get them running and in good mechanical condition, less paint and tires was in the $1500-$2500 range. A couple were considerably MORE, a couple turned out to be "new battery, a couple gaskets, and a filter change" and not much more. I ALWAYS start with finding out if the engine is locked, what sort of condition the engine and hydraulic oil is in, and again, that all important rubber. Then you roll the dice.

In the end, if you have to spend the entire value of the tractor to get it in mint condition, you still have a very nice tractor with a lot on fresh parts. A great deal depends on how much of a "project" you wish to take on and what sort of mechanical aptitude you see yourself as having.

If it's "all there", I wouldn't hesitate to invest $1000 to $1500, and with a little research, maybe even more. Again, spend some time checking out overall condition and THEN evaluate it's worth.

 

[beer_me]

Good info farmswithjunk. Im hoping to be able to get it for under $1,000 but planned on passing if the motor is locked up. Im not worried about not being able to do the work as I have built many different motors but never a diesel.

Im pretty sure its going to need tires and i planned on that and was pretty close to your estimate of price. I was planning on $800. How should i go about trying to turn the motor over? Can i just stick the key in it with a new battery or should I try to roll it over by hand? If by hand most motors either have a nut on the front of the crank or an accessible starter ring gear or both. If I can throw a battery in it to try will a standard red top Optima turn that motor over? Spending some time trying to get it running where it is at before buying should be no problem since he is a very good friend and would probably feel better knowing that he didn't sell me a pile of junk.

What you have said reinforces my main fears which are motor, injection pump, and hydraulics. Clutch don't sound fun but something im sure i can handle. Im thinking the little things are going to be what makes this expensive providing the major parts above are ok.

 

[beer_me]

Also if I get it to turn over i should be able to check the clutch right? Put it in gear with the clutch in and turn it over. If it don't lunge forward i should be ok right?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I'd be very cautious about using a battery until you know the condition of the wiring. It wouldn't take all that much of a battery to turn it over though. That Perkins AD3 152 is an easy motor to spin. You could pull the starter and access the flywheel there, or on the front of the bellhousing on the side OPPOSITE from the starter, you'll find a small foam rubber plug that when removed will access the flywheel. A prybar should let you turn the motor. All else fails, hook to it with another tractor or a truck and bump it in high gear. Watch the harmonic balancer for movement.

A few years back, I dragged home a 165 Massey that had sat idle for 20 years. I cleaned out the fuel system, changed filters and oil, hooked up a battery and away we went!

The bulk of the hydraulic system sits submerged in oil. Unless she's got a significant volume of water in the sump, better than not chance that the hydraulics will work just fine. The lift cylinder is exposed and MAY be rusted/bad seals, but that's not all so expensive or complicated to fix.

Fortunately, the 100 series Massey's are VERY simply constructed. There's not all that many "nickel and dime" items to add up very high compared to some tractors.

 

[beer_me]

Im thinking if i remember right there is a door right infront of the tractor which would make bumping it with a truck much easier.

You are making me feel a little better about this old tractor now.

Is there any way to look at the injection pump with out it running?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Im thinking if i remember right there is a door right infront of the tractor which would make bumping it with a truck much easier.

You are making me feel a little better about this old tractor now.

Is there any way to look at the injection pump with out it running?

2 ways I know of to test an injector pump. 1 is by starting and running the tractor. The other way is on a test bench at a competent diesel repair shop.

The beauty of the 100 series Massey's is it's simplicity and durability. I've seen some of these tractors parked for 10 to 20 years and then simply fired up and put back into service. Get ALL the old fluids out, replace with new, change filters, check what you can, and give 'er a whirl.

How confident are you with the story that it was parked ONLY because of a failed water pump? USUALLY a tractor with good resale value won't get deadlined because of only one simple part failure. Also, any clue as to how many hours on the clock? (Will it be worth the effort IF it does start?)