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  1. #1
    Bronze Member ArcherXC's Avatar
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    Oct 2012
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    53
    Location
    Swansea, SC
    Tractor
    1965 Massey Ferguson 135

    Default Hydraulic pump knocking

    I have a 1965 MF135 with a Z145 engine. Today was the first time I used the tractor with an implement. I was using a scrape blade that weighs about 500lbs. The hydraulics worked really well smooth and no problem lifting the blade. But as I was using the tractor I noticed a knocking sound under the seat that I had never heard the tractor make before. It was quite noticeable. It knocked when the blade was in the up position and the tractor was at idle. I took quite awhile trying to figure it out. I was concerned and didn't want to damage anything so I lowered the blade so I could turn off the tractor. When I lowered the blade the knocking stopped. When I lifted it back up it started knocking again. When I increase the RPMs the knocking goes away. Is this normal? Will I damage anything by using the tractor with the knocking? All fluid level are good. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Bronze Member zslnk's Avatar
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    Aug 2012
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    79
    Location
    ON, Canada
    Tractor
    MF 135

    Default Re: Hydraulic pump knocking

    Hi there,
    Are you moving the position control all the way back into the 'constant pumping' position? This dead/ends the pump I believe and mine makes some different sounds as the over pressure poppet releases. Someone might correct me on this.

  3. #3
    R.I.P.
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    Dec 2008
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    5,883
    Location
    North Carolina
    Tractor
    Kubota BX2200

    Default Re: Hydraulic pump knocking

    I'm curious to know the answer myself, since I hear a MF 175 do that sometimes too.

    Edit: I just found this thread. Farm with Junk knows M-F's pretty well, so check out his post. It doesn't address the knocking, but does explain the lift controls pretty thoroughly.

    http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/h...ment-wont.html
    Which is bigger?: a) $100 per month since the Big Bang or b) the US National Debt.

  4. #4
    Bronze Member zslnk's Avatar
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    Aug 2012
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    Location
    ON, Canada
    Tractor
    MF 135

    Default



    This is the position of full lift without going into constant pumping. Outside draft sensitivity all the way back, position pulled back to the stop.

  5. #5
    Bronze Member ArcherXC's Avatar
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    Oct 2012
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    53
    Location
    Swansea, SC
    Tractor
    1965 Massey Ferguson 135

    Default Re: Hydraulic pump knocking

    All levers are in the right position. It seems to knock more the longer I run the tractor. The hydraulics work well. Thanks for all your input. I've learned a lot.

  6. #6
    Elite Member The kid's Avatar
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    Apr 2012
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    4,155
    Location
    Middle Tennessee
    Tractor
    1965 135 gasser, 1967 135 diesel

    Default Re: Hydraulic pump knocking

    Read this thread by FarmswithJunk. He explains the knocking.

    http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/m...ing-sound.html

  7. #7
    Bronze Member ArcherXC's Avatar
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    Oct 2012
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    Location
    Swansea, SC
    Tractor
    1965 Massey Ferguson 135

    Default Re: Hydraulic pump knocking

    Thanks for all your help. My knocking seems to be normal.

  8. #8
    Gold Member
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    May 2012
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    311
    Location
    Gidgiegannup Springs, Western Australia
    Tractor
    Massey Ferguson 148 .Chamberlain Super 70. Caterpillar D4. Chamberlain 354 FEL.Toro 268 rideon kubota L2002fel

    Default Re: Hydraulic pump knocking

    G'day ArcherXC.
    I have Replied to this question in a previous post as to why the Massey hydraulic system KNOCKS when the three point hitch is raised to the Transport position.
    Suggesting that this is normal is not so and to operate a tractor in this condition will eventually destroy The releif valve and eventually lead to premature failure of the pump not to mention the Loss of engine power due to the Parasitic effect of the hydraulic pump being constantly under load.

    The knocking is an indication that the hydraulics are either out of adjustment or are being used incorrectly.

    Let me say firstly that comparing the English tractor to the U.S manufactured tractors they differ in the hydraulic quadrant layout which sometimes leads to confusion among our learned members.

    Lets talk about the U.S system that you have.

    Example you are using a plow ,rotary hoe or any other Draft controlled Implement, firstly the position control lever should be set in the transport position and left there,More about that in a moment, The draft or Depth of implement engagement is controlled in some respects automatically by the tractor hydraulic system a system which communicates Mechanically via the top link ,the top link has an internal sensing rod which via the ferguson patented draft system sends a mechanical signal to the Hydraulic control Valve raising and lowering the lift linkage ,to maintain the Preset Draft .

    The Draft control lever will respond as intended only if soil conditions are CONSISTENT If for example you are plowing an area where the soil condition varies ,say where there is a hollow and the soil is more penetrable the Draft lever may have to be raised slightly to maintain a constant Depth and consequently Lowered again as condition change This is where the adjustable Draft Neutral Reference stop
    is used ,The reference stop on the picture is located at the lower end of the Draft quadrant.

    Position Control.The position control Generally is used as it,s name suggests To Infinitly Control the Height of the Three point Linkage,Example Using a carryall ,Brush hog ,etc If the linkage is set to transport position The implement will Lift and Stop at a measured distance from the Fully raised position and it will stay there ,if the lever is moved down the quadrant the hydraulics will respond accordingly,lowering and holding at that position The linkage will not DRIFT up or down.

    The constant Pumping Position will provide a constant supply of oil from the three external tapping points or if fitted a selector valve, This oil supply can be used to raise a tipping trailer or drive other hydraulically operated implements,Note the pressure will be at relief valve pressure,Depending on the valve fitted 2250 ..2500 P.S.I.

    The Response lever ,right hand side of the transmission next to the oil level dipstick will when used will control the RATE OF DROP of the three point hitch only ,example when the tractor has a heavy piece of equipment and you want to lower it slowly ,move the lever towards Slow untill you have the rate of drop that you are happy with.

    The reason that if when using the position OR Draft control levers The hydraulic system internal and to a point the external adjustments are carried out with the both levers set in a known position and if they are not used as descirbed will not operate as intended

    The Knocking Pump.
    The hydraulc pump is unusual in the fact that it is a positive displacement piston pump (Scotch Yoke)the pistons (4off) being driven via two bronze/brass Camblocks which in turn are driven by a splined through shaft with cam lobes this shaft at the rear provides drive for the Power takeoff via a sliding gear.
    When the linkage is raised and when it reaches the upper limit of travel if the sector adjustment is not set correctly the hydraulic system will hover around the Releif valve dump Pressure and the fact that the pump is ,one a piston pump two is gear driven ,and last but not least IS driven via a gear train with three splined connections with normal running clearance this lot causes not only the pump to RATTLE OR KNOCK but the shafts to contribute to the Racket.
    The relief valve when it LIFTS will initially slow the engine down and you will hear a hiss ,IT WILL NOT RATTLE as said the Knock comes from the convoluted Mechanical drive to the pump.

    To fix the problem.

    Set the draft lever to the fully raised position and with a weight on the three point linkage raise the POSITION CONTROL lever all the way up , mark the lift cover where the lift arms pivot ,mark a line across both the lift arm and the cover then lower slowly lower till the rattle stops ,then lower another 1/8 "inch with reference to the Photograph there is an adjustable stop with two retaining bolts ,loosen these of and adjust so that when the linkage is raised to theTRANSPORT position the lift lever will contact the upper limit stop BEFORE it reaches the CONSTANT PUMPING POSITION.
    No more rattle.

    Thats all for now
    Regards.
    Hutch

  9. #9
    Elite Member
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    Carroll, Ohio
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    IH Farmall 656 gas/ IH 240 Utility/ 2, Super C Farmalls/ 2, Farmall A's/ Farmall BN/McCormick-Deering OS-6/McCormick-Deering O-4/ '36 Farmall F-12/ 480 Case hoe. '65 Ford 2000 3 cyl., 4 spd. w/3 spd Aux. Trans

    Default Re: Hydraulic pump knocking

    I have an uncle who had a 35. He told me one of the pump support pins broke on his, and made a sound like a rod knocking. If all the above suggestions check out, and does not eliminate the problem, you may want to have a look at the the support pins.

  10. #10
    Elite Member The kid's Avatar
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    Location
    Middle Tennessee
    Tractor
    1965 135 gasser, 1967 135 diesel

    Default

    Good write up Hutch .

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