Replacement water temp. guage.

[MF204Mike]

Thanx Massey WV
I did some looking at AGCO again and the stat housing on the 35 is the same number as on the 204 so I don't see why the probe (sending unit) would be different.
Even though the part numbers for the guages are completly different Im hoping that its something like a chrome bezel or black bezel, or something that will be minor and still make the unit usable.
When I found out what the difference is or if the unit will or will not work I'll post the results.
Thanx again

 

[Forester Massey]

Mike, I wanted to point out that I had to drill to get the probe to go in but I did not have to re-tap threads. My gauge came with two threaded pieces to chose from. Can't imagine an after market would not work.

 

[MF204Mike]

The problem I'm having is the probe on the guage thats currently in is a smaller diameter and shorter than all the ones I've seen from tractor dealers and local auto part stores. I don't own a micrometer but I am trying to find someone that does so I can get a true size on this probe.
I have found a few guages on line at Steiner and C & L Tractor parts in Tn. that state they will fit the 204 but I am awaiting a return call on the measurments of the probe. I can't understand why if the thermo housing is the same on serveral models that the probe on the guage would be different. I don't know why this is but it is, I went to a Dear John dealer here in town and they had a universal guage that also had a thicker and longer probe, the nut to secure it to the housing was correct but the probe was about a 1/2 inch to long. I thought about what you said about the "hard water" scale build up I guessing, but havn't had a chance to see about trying to pick at the bottom of the thermo housing to see if in fact this is whats keeping the probe from seating fully. I don't really want to but I guess the why to really see whats going on is to pull the thermo housing off and then figure out the best way to address this conundrum.

BTW... I did find out that the suffix on the part numbers for the guage on the 35s that ended with M92 and M93 was supossed to be different mfger's but really there was a difference in the capillary length, the M92 was 46" long and the M93 was 60" long, at least thats what I noticed in an item discription on another tractor site selling "replacement parts".

 

[The kid]

Hello again Mike. Instead of comparing oranges to oranges and product updates let me show you the difference in my old and new thermostat probes which is the real issue. Gauges are standard 2" in size. Some come with color on the scale and some are just black printing. That would be your choice. They come with a 12V bulb that would attach into your existing gauge lighting. That is if your not using the electroilluminescent power supply on your gauges which is 24V. If you don't use at night then it's a non issue hooking the light up.

There are many manufacturers of gauges anywhere from India to China. I don't know of any that are made in the USA for your tractor. If your still worried about ebay. Ask questions before you buy. They are just like walking up to a parts counter. They will sell you what you ask for. If what you ask for has more than one version, you need to ask those type questions. I have no problem ordering from either an online tractor retailer or using ebay. I ALLWAYS ASK QUESTIONS IF IN DOUBT BEFORE BUYING!

I have not yet mounted the probe of my new temp gauge so it was good timing and was able to take a few comparison pictures that might answer some doubt for you.

My temp gauge sensor came with an adapter for a much larger bolt hole if needed. With that said, the gauge would probably fit many different models of tractors.

View attachment 302940 View attachment 302941 View attachment 302942

Above shows the measurement of the new temp sensor end which slides in place of the old one.

View attachment 302943

Above picture shows the new sensor probe adapter with the old retainer nut screwed into it to verify they (old and new retainer nut) are both the same size.

View attachment 302944 View attachment 302945

Above shows the old sensor probe nut and sensor with measurements.

Note the probe sensor is thinner and a bit longer. The old probe was a snug fit. The new one has a tad of room. Now you ask is the new probe too long? Not at all. I measures inside where the probe sensor goes in and there is plenty of room by at least 1/2". My tractor is a Continental Z145. The gauge is advertised for several models of MF tractors equipped with Continental engines. So it's my assesment that similar gauges will work in your tractor.

 

[MF204Mike]

Thanx Kid,

I have replaced many guages water oil etc over the years on various cars and trucks and at times have run into various "snafu's" most of which have been solved with available fittings. This "booger" is a weird one. I was able to figure out the size (diameter wise) using my drill bit box, slid the probe in the holes where the bits rest until I came up with .359 (23/64 drill bit) length is 1 inch. I did slide a punch into the opening on the thermo housing and seem to think the hole bottoms out on a concave instead of being a straight though (same diameter)hole, this is where the problem comes in both length and diameter.
Below is the listing from Steiner for the guage. note the dia. and length.

DASH MOUNTED, NO LOGO--This water temperature gauge measures from 110 degrees to 230 degrees. It has a 90 degree pointer sweep. The temp gauge includes a 72" long heavy duty capillary tube. It features a step chrome bezel. The thread is 5/8" - 18 UF with 1/2" NPT pipe bushing. The probe length to the fitting measures 1.515". The probe diameter is .383". The gauge fits into a 2" diameter hole.--Check Length Before Ordering--May Vary From Original Appearance

I thought I had it figured out with a fitting I found that came off a transmittion line to radiator the inside threads were right, the lenght was right but, the outside threads were 18NPT so they wouldn't fit the thermo housing.
I called my Massey dealer just to see if the thermo housing was still available guess what NO--- advised to try a bone yard, just wanted to see if my thought was right on the bottoming out. With out taking the housing off I wouldn't be able to confirm this thought so I guess it's time to get greasy.
I did find a machine shop right here in town that said they would drill and tap the housing to a 1/2-14NPT thread which is the size of the bushing most guages come with for $5.00.
So at this point I'm thinking the drilling that Forester Massey did on his was more or less removing the concave in the housing, chime in FM if this might be the case. Once I do get the housing off I'll know for sure and then be able to plan another avenue of attack.
These machines are so simple to work on it's just a matter of out smarting them:thumbsup:
Once I figure out how to post pic's I'd be better able to explain. Pics make things so much easier, for me anyway.

 

[The kid]

Give these guys a call. This gauge is made in the good ole USA. I have bought from them.

C&L Tractor Parts, Inc. - Water Temperature Gauge for MH Pony,20,22,etc. - Product Details

 

[MF204Mike]

Thanx KId,
I did try them, they had the same guage as Steiner and Kuhn's in N.Y. same part# and price ABC239 $27.25 +S/H
C & L's part# ABC239MH $26.10 MH suffix might mean something but they haven't sent the dimensions on the probe yet. I'll give them a follow up call tomorrow.
The thermo housing(on mine anyway) AGCO# 181520M1 has the hole tapped for the nut size on the guage probe itself (smaller than 3/8-18NPT I have this size bushing and the probe fits in it), the bushing with most guages is 1/2 NPT and I have serveral this size also.
If you could, would you see what .359 in inches would be on your mic. and match that to your new probe, if it would be the same that would fix my problem for sure but your one pic shows the probe screwed into the bushing so I'm thinking your housing is tapped larger than the nut on the probe. I guess I should have asked if anyone had a guage the screws right into the housing without a bushing. didn't think of it till just now.
I really appreciate the time you've put into your reply for me and it lead me to another question. I don't really want to get off topic but.
Some where over the years the generator was replaced by an altenator with an internal regulater , I read somewhere where it needs to be "excited"by a small load in order to charge at low RPM, I'm wondering if I get a guage with a light in it if that would be enough of a load to get it excited. I don't have any lights at all on the tractor right now but do have some headlights that came from Ebay to go on. But one problem at a time for now.

Thanx to all that have helped so far, you guys are great and so is this site.
Mike

 

[The kid]

Thanx KId,
I did try them, they had the same guage as Steiner and Kuhn's in N.Y. same part# and price ABC239 $27.25 +S/H
C & L's part# ABC239MH $26.10 MH suffix might mean something but they haven't sent the dimensions on the probe yet. I'll give them a follow up call tomorrow.
The thermo housing(on mine anyway) AGCO# 181521M1 has the hole tapped for the nut size on the guage probe itself (smaller than 3/8-18NPT I have this size bushing and the probe fits in it), the bushing with most guages is 1/2 NPT and I have serveral this size also.
If you could, would you see what .359 in inches would be on your mic. and match that to your new probe, if it would be the same that would fix my problem for sure but your one pic shows the probe screwed into the bushing so I'm thinking your housing is tapped larger than the nut on the probe. I guess I should have asked if anyone had a guage the screws right into the housing without a bushing. didn't think of it till just now.
I really appreciate the time you've put into your reply for me and it lead me to another question. I don't really want to get off topic but.
Some where over the years the generator was replaced by an altenator with an internal regulater , I read somewhere where it needs to be "excited"by a small load in order to charge at low RPM, I'm wondering if I get a guage with a light in it if that would be enough of a load to get it excited. I don't have any lights at all on the tractor right now but do have some headlights that came from Ebay to go on. But one problem at a time for now.

Thanx to all that have helped so far, you guys are great and so is this site.
Mike

Mike mine is a 3/8" as well. 0.359 equates to around 9mm. The large fitting shown in the picture is not used. I screwed the old fitting into the larger adapter that came with my new gauge and it was the same thread size. Does your 204 have a oil temp gauge too? In my opinion we have the same temp gauge fitting.

On the alternator. Do you have a one wire or three wires? Do you still have a voltage regulator? I have a Delco 10SI which is a very common alternator, but has a tachdrive on it. I have a modern ignition switch with ACC/OFF/ON/Start-ACC. It's eliminates an idiot light and a back feed diode. First what type of alt do you have. Internal diode regulated? Or non regulated going to an external regulator?

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[MF204Mike]

Kid,
the 9mm sounds about right, I went to a farm and home in town and the nut I used to start trying to find the size on the probe nut was a 10-1.50mm.
The nut for the probe is a 1/8-18NPT is what I'm thinking, a bushing I have that the probe fits is a 3/8-18NPT so if the standard increases by 8ths this would make sense ?? just not 100% at this point. I have many fittings (bushings) some with the size stamped on them which makes it somewhat easier to determine size of course the ones that don't have any stamping don't help with sizes but come in handy.
My tractor does have an oil temp guage it works, keeping fingers crossed till I get this issue ironed out.

I did a little more research and found the AGCO part number for the guage had changed twice before being discontinued, based on serial # 655 tractors after mine had the first replacement. Also the original was a water temp and ammeter combined. I just saw a thermo housing on Ebay with the elbow and thermo and it looked the same as mine as far as I could tell but couldn't really tell if the temp port was same size or not.
What year is your "Old M F" (I like that by the way) I would almost bet money the housings are the same but with the years maybe they were tapped differently, thats the only thing that would make sense to me.

My plan at this point is to remove the housing and see just what is going on inside that hole. If it's just a matter of drilling out the bottom and inserting the probe with no length problem it's good if not at least I'll have the housing off and be able to approach it differently.

As far as the altenator, it seems to charge during use not sure about idle the battery stays charged (very little ammeter movement, normal with no load).
It does have 3 wires so I'm guessing it has the internal regulator, the old "external" regulator is still on the tractor but nothing is connected to it.
Don't know much more about it, it works as far as I know so not worried about it for now.
I think my key switch might have a short or lose connection some where internaly, It's "I" "I-L" and "L" never used to start in the "I" alone before but now it will from time to time, I did remove the switch so I could access the throttle rod assembly a few weeks back and did tighten the connections so maybe it just some thing as simple as that IDK.

I think these other issues might be better off in another thread seeing as I've opened this can of worms.
Like I said before this tractor is easy to work on it just needs a little stroken from time to time.
Thanx again for all your feedback, much appreciated.

Mike

 

[MF204Mike]

Mike, mine was an after market gauge. Also, it did not require much drilling and I am have mostly been removing buildup of hard water.

From reading your post I was wondering if you use distilled water in your radiator?
I had 1965 Ford that was full of scale buildup,it ran a little hot 225/230 normal should have been around 195.
I flushed it several times before it started looking clean.
I also added a bottle of Water Wetter, the temp came down to around 205/200 still a bit warm but much more comfortable.

Mike