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  1. #21
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    1960 Massey Ferguson 204

    Default Re: Replacement water temp. guage.

    Quote Originally Posted by The kid View Post
    Hello again Mike. Instead of comparing oranges to oranges and product updates let me show you the difference in my old and new thermostat probes which is the real issue. Gauges are standard 2" in size. Some come with color on the scale and some are just black printing. That would be your choice. They come with a 12V bulb that would attach into your existing gauge lighting. That is if your not using the electroilluminescent power supply on your gauges which is 24V. If you don't use at night then it's a non issue hooking the light up.

    There are many manufacturers of gauges anywhere from India to China. I don't know of any that are made in the USA for your tractor. If your still worried about ebay. Ask questions before you buy. They are just like walking up to a parts counter. They will sell you what you ask for. If what you ask for has more than one version, you need to ask those type questions. I have no problem ordering from either an online tractor retailer or using ebay. I ALLWAYS ASK QUESTIONS IF IN DOUBT BEFORE BUYING!

    I have not yet mounted the probe of my new temp gauge so it was good timing and was able to take a few comparison pictures that might answer some doubt for you.

    My temp gauge sensor came with an adapter for a much larger bolt hole if needed. With that said, the gauge would probably fit many different models of tractors.

    Attachment 302940 Attachment 302941 Attachment 302942

    Above shows the measurement of the new temp sensor end which slides in place of the old one.

    Attachment 302943

    Above picture shows the new sensor probe adapter with the old retainer nut screwed into it to verify they (old and new retainer nut) are both the same size.

    Attachment 302944 Attachment 302945

    Above shows the old sensor probe nut and sensor with measurements.

    Note the probe sensor is thinner and a bit longer. The old probe was a snug fit. The new one has a tad of room. Now you ask is the new probe too long? Not at all. I measures inside where the probe sensor goes in and there is plenty of room by at least 1/2". My tractor is a Continental Z145. The gauge is advertised for several models of MF tractors equipped with Continental engines. So it's my assesment that similar gauges will work in your tractor.
    Kid,
    I took a pic of the two probes with measurements,
    -temp-guage-probe-1a-jpg
    AAA battery just for comparison.

    At this point I'm thinking somewhere along the way the housings were tapped differently, what year IDK this would explain the reason some aftermarket guages will fit right in (with a bushing) while other will not.
    I'm still going to try and find a bushing/adapter if I strike out there I'll probably just drill and retap or something along that line.

    I did hear back from C & L this morning and as suspected their guage is the same as Steiners and Kuhns. The discription was the same word for word, although they were $1.15 cheaper.

    I am still a little confused on your apllication, did the probe screw right into the housing or was there a bushing/adapter involved at all.
    My old probe screws right in. no bushing/adapter at all

    Mike

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Replacement water temp. guage.

    Quote Originally Posted by MF204Mike View Post
    I did some looking at AGCO again and the stat housing on the 35 is the same number as on the 204 so I don't see why the probe (sending unit) would be different.
    Quote Originally Posted by MF204Mike View Post
    I took a pic of the two probes with measurements,
    -temp-guage-probe-1a-jpg
    AAA battery just for comparison.
    Have you measured the depth of the hole where the temperature probe goes into the thermostat housing? It should be measured both from the edge of hole in the housing and the landing (step) where the temperature probe seats. Or better yet, and perhaps I missed it, but have you simply tried the aftermarket probe to see how it fits? Unless someone has altered it, your thermostat housing (where the temperature probe goes) should be the same as the one on my Continental Z-145 engine because the part number (181521M1) for the thermostat housing has remained unchanged for the Massey 204 Industrial (Continental Z-134 engine), Massey 35 (Continental Z-134 engine), Massey 135 Special (Continental Z-134 engine), and Massey 135 Deluxe (Continental Z-145 engine).

    Out of curiosity, I just took a quick measurement of my Continental Z-145 engine's OEM temperature probe and it's the same as the aftermarket probe shown in your picture and appears to have the same threads too. I have not measured the depth of the hole in my thermostat housing, but if the thermostat housing part number is the same for the Continental Z-134 and Z-145 engines and the probe of my Continental Z-145 engine is the same as the aftermarket probe you pictured, it stands to reason that the longer aftermarket temperature probe will work in your Continental Z-134 engine.
    .

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Replacement water temp. guage.

    Thanx WV,

    I think my problem might have been from trying to use "auto parts" stores temp guages, I didn't try any from a tractor parts supplier, after all my Massey dealer had said the OEM was discontinued with no replacement offered try an "auto parts store". I would have said the same thing myself.
    The larger gauge probe that I posted is from my "extra" parts box, don't know for sure what it came from but was going to use it if it would fit, I did try 2 guages from the auto parts store in town and it was the same result, too long to seat,to wide to pass the "seat if you will" fastening nut wouldn't even reach the threads in the housing, roughly 1/2 inch to short.
    My assumption is the probe would reach past the end of the tapped hole into the housing so coolant would flow around it in order to get the reading to the guage itself. am I wrong thinking this?.
    I was able to get a punch past the "seat" and it went maybe 1 1/2 past? didn't measure just eyeballed it.
    This is what lead me to beleive the diameter of the probe was to big. Which in this case is correct.

    Digging around in another bin of fittings I found one that will work with the "extra parts box" guage I have, I had to drill out the bottom of the fitting to accept the probe but the threads match both the nut for the probe and the tapped hole on the housing, however it will be a day or two before I can try to install it as the "HONEY DO" list takes 1st priority, if you know what I mean.

    I am a little concerned about going this route though, as the probe itself will be in somewhat of a "chamber" not really inside of the housing, the probe still will not go past the seat of the hole in the housing but will be sitting inside of the fitting. if that make sense.
    Coolant will still enter the "chamber" and I'm thinking the ambeint temp will give me the reading on the guage.
    Maybe I'm just being too cheap to cough up the $35.00 or so for a guage from a tractor parts dealer when I can get an automotive guage for $12.00. Could have been the problem from the get go. Just me trying to save a buck I guess.

    Anyway when I do get the chance to try out my fitting and installation I'll post the results.

    Thanx for all the advise and input, really do appreciate it.
    Mike

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Replacement water temp. guage.

    Quote Originally Posted by MF204Mike View Post
    Kid,
    I took a pic of the two probes with measurements,
    -temp-guage-probe-1a-jpg
    AAA battery just for comparison.

    At this point I'm thinking somewhere along the way the housings were tapped differently, what year IDK this would explain the reason some aftermarket guages will fit right in (with a bushing) while other will not.
    I'm still going to try and find a bushing/adapter if I strike out there I'll probably just drill and retap or something along that line.

    I did hear back from C & L this morning and as suspected their guage is the same as Steiners and Kuhns. The discription was the same word for word, although they were $1.15 cheaper.

    I am still a little confused on your apllication, did the probe screw right into the housing or was there a bushing/adapter involved at all.
    My old probe screws right in. no bushing/adapter at all

    Mike
    Before I retap anything verfify the thread size. My new bushing didn't go it at first I guess because of a bit of buildup. So I fiddled with it and it started to screw in. Put a wrench on it hoping I wasn't crossthreading. Ran it in halfway and removed it. No damage the the threads. That verified they where both the same size and thread count. I think it was because the new fitting actually had threads all the way to the end and the original didn't. Take that bushing to a hardware store and match a nut to it to verify it's size.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Replacement water temp. guage.

    Quote Originally Posted by MF204Mike View Post
    I think my problem might have been from trying to use "auto parts" stores temp guages, I didn't try any from a tractor parts supplier, after all my Massey dealer had said the OEM was discontinued with no replacement offered try an "auto parts store".
    This is your problem. The generic temperature gauges offered by auto parts stores are generally intended for cars and trucks, not tractors. Any reputable tractor parts supplier should be able to get you an aftermarket temperature gauge which will work just fine.

    The difference is between the words OEM and aftermarket, where most people behind the parts counter will simply say no if the OEM part is no longer available, but without mentioning that an aftermarket part IS available. Believe me, I've encountered this many times, and you have to ask the right questions to get the right answers, especially when dealing with the people behind the parts counter.

    Quote Originally Posted by MF204Mike View Post
    My assumption is the probe would reach past the end of the tapped hole into the housing so coolant would flow around it in order to get the reading to the guage itself. am I wrong thinking this?.
    I was able to get a punch past the "seat" and it went maybe 1 1/2 past? didn't measure just eyeballed it.
    I took a quick measurement of the total depth of the hole in my thermostat housing and found it to be almost exactly 2 inches deep, if not just a bit more. Accounting for the threads, the depth from the landing below the threads to the bottom of the hole seems to be about 1.5 inches. Again, these are not precise measurements, but they should more than suffice.

    Honestly, I believe that if you order an aftermarket temperature gauge from a reputable tractor parts supplier and ensure it's correct for your application, you'll be back in business.
    .

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Replacement water temp. guage.

    Quote Originally Posted by MF204Mike View Post
    Thanx WV,

    I think my problem might have been from trying to use "auto parts" stores temp guages, I didn't try any from a tractor parts supplier, after all my Massey dealer had said the OEM was discontinued with no replacement offered try an "auto parts store". I would have said the same thing myself.
    I'll have to agree with VW on this. Since your engine is a Continental I'd be shocked if an OEM gauge didn't fit. If you want to test my theory take your bushing and match it to a nut. I bet it's a 5/8 18. As for the bulb size may vary slightly in diameter and length I don't think is an issue. The temp bulb flared end is matched to the bushing.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Replacement water temp. guage.

    WV and The KId,

    I agree with both of ya's, I think my thinking "aftermarket" would mean "auto parts" being new to tractors and having some experience in older cars and trucks I didn't think a water temp guage would be different. But I do see the locgic WV pointed out, and the two are different breeds of animals.

    I'm going to try the fitting I found and see if it works for the time being, I'll be moving some hay this week, the cows told me they are a bout ready for another bale.
    I'll more than likely order the guage that C & L has, looks a litlle more like the other guages and when and if I get to restore this ole gal shouldn't have to go through this silly issue again.
    I guess I'd be guilty of the same thing I used to say about a guy I worked for a few years back, spend $50.00 to fix a $5.00 problem. Every day is a learning experience and today is no different.

    I'm glad I have this computer to hide behind so you don't see how red my face must be.

    Thanx a bunch guys, the next round is on me.

  8. #28
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MF204Mike View Post
    WV and The KId,

    I agree with both of ya's, I think my thinking "aftermarket" would mean "auto parts" being new to tractors and having some experience in older cars and trucks I didn't think a water temp guage would be different. But I do see the locgic WV pointed out, and the two are different breeds of animals.

    I'm going to try the fitting I found and see if it works for the time being, I'll be moving some hay this week, the cows told me they are a bout ready for another bale.
    I'll more than likely order the guage that C & L has, looks a litlle more like the other guages and when and if I get to restore this ole gal shouldn't have to go through this silly issue again.
    I guess I'd be guilty of the same thing I used to say about a guy I worked for a few years back, spend $50.00 to fix a $5.00 problem. Every day is a learning experience and today is no different.

    I'm glad I have this computer to hide behind so you don't see how red my face must be.

    Thanx a bunch guys, the next round is on me.
    Gauges are basically the same. Same principle. The sensor probes is where the difference is. autos have a standard size and so do tractors. Sam Adams Octoberfest for me.

    Message posted with TractorByNet v1.6.2 for iPad

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Replacement water temp. guage.

    Quote Originally Posted by MF204Mike View Post
    I think my thinking "aftermarket" would mean "auto parts" being new to tractors and having some experience in older cars and trucks I didn't think a water temp guage would be different. But I do see the locgic WV pointed out, and the two are different breeds of animals.
    They are definitely different breeds of animals. Tractors are much simpler to work on but don't underestimate their simplicity because there are more than a few caveats to watch out for, especially where safety is concerned. Tractors can kill you before you have time to say the word dead. Stay safe.

    Quote Originally Posted by MF204Mike View Post
    I'll more than likely order the guage that C & L has, looks a litlle more like the other guages and when and if I get to restore this ole gal shouldn't have to go through this silly issue again.
    If you ever plan to restore it, I should caution you that it gets addictive in a hurry, and whatever you think you might have to spend... double it.

    Quote Originally Posted by MF204Mike View Post
    I guess I'd be guilty of the same thing I used to say about a guy I worked for a few years back, spend $50.00 to fix a $5.00 problem. Every day is a learning experience and today is no different.

    I'm glad I have this computer to hide behind so you don't see how red my face must be.

    Thanx a bunch guys, the next round is on me.
    You're welcome and think nothing of it. The real problem is that everyone was assuming. You assumed that temperature gauges from auto parts stores were the same as the ones from tractor parts stores, and all/most of us (myself included) assumed that you were looking at temperature gauges from tractor parts stores. Things happen, but with patience and understanding all worked out well.
    .

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Replacement water temp. guage.

    Quote Originally Posted by The kid View Post
    Gauges are basically the same. Same principle. The sensor probes is where the difference is. autos have a standard size and so do tractors. Sam Adams Octoberfest for me.

    Message posted with TractorByNet v1.6.2 for iPad
    Didn't know you guys had an Octoberfest in Ten, I knew about what a headache the Boone fest would cause on I-24 tho.
    It would be Old Style for me please. Thank you.

    Mike

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