1953 Massey Ferguson problem.

[gding287]

Hey gang! As you see I have an MF35 (gas). We had a little snow storm and I pulkled out the blade. I notice the 3pt wasn't working but the pto is but only in engine mode it will not engage in ground mode. It feels as if the ground mode lever when depressed is hitting a non turning shaft. When the engine started I heard a loud clunk and can now hear a shaft wobbling in the case in the area of the seat right where the case split front and rear. There was no obvious over travel but the pto arms do lift freely when engine engaged and stopped. running and not runiing. I engaged transfer case and let pto run to try and warm the oil as its wuite cold. Fluid looks good an clear but a bit over where I usually keep it. (not sitting flat though)

My basic first question is there a known weakspot in a shaft that drives the hyd pump for the 3 point hitch lift mech?

2nd question what would be my starting point on plan of attack. All actuating arms feel they travel normal for trim and up/down. resistance is there.

Earlier symptom was every once in a while the engine pto handle would fall out of gear. Other that=n that shes a dream. I really want to get my eyes on that shaft and see what gave.


Thank you so much for your time. I really respect your alls passion and feel out of place by barging and and saying fix my stuff......lol. Im mechanically inclined and have a machinist backround so I am capable. Lost but capable...ty

 

[coss]

I'm not an expert, but I'll give it a try.

I have a Massey Harris 50, which has similar mechanicals to your 35. After hitting a stump with a bush hog, the PTO would engage in engine mode but not in ground mode. I drained the gear case oil and took off the left side cover. The shifter fork for the PTO, attached to the handle on the side cover, had popped out of its slot, presumably due to temporary flexion of the PTO shaft when I hit the stump. It was pretty easy to move the slider up the PTO shaft so that the slot was in the proper place for the fork to fit into it when I replaced the left side cover. Everthing worked fine after that.

Sometimes, water in the gear case will freeze, and when the tractor is started, the ice block prevents the gears from turning as they should. It may be possible that you stressed the PTO shaft when you started turning frozen machinery, and the shifter fork came out of the slot.

Concerning the hydraulic dysfunction, it may be that the gear that drives the pump broke or otherwise got jarred free from the pump. You might also have ice in the pump.

As for manuals, I have a factory repair manual for a MF 65 that isn't as good for my problem as the frequently-criticized I&T manual, which has a good diagram of the PTO shaft and the stuff that synchronizes with it.

Good luck with your fix. I hope you get a thaw so you don't have to face an iceberg in the gear case!

 

[Jerry/MT]

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Hey gang! As you see I have an MF35 (gas). We had a little snow storm and I pulkled out the blade. I notice the 3pt wasn't working but the pto is but only in engine mode it will not engage in ground mode. It feels as if the ground mode lever when depressed is hitting a non turning shaft. When the engine started I heard a loud clunk and can now hear a shaft wobbling in the case in the area of the seat right where the case split front and rear. There was no obvious over travel but the pto arms do lift freely when engine engaged and stopped. running and not runiing. I engaged transfer case and let pto run to try and warm the oil as its wuite cold. Fluid looks good an clear but a bit over where I usually keep it. (not sitting flat though)

My basic first question is there a known weakspot in a shaft that drives the hyd pump for the 3 point hitch lift mech?

2nd question what would be my starting point on plan of attack. All actuating arms feel they travel normal for trim and up/down. resistance is there.

Earlier symptom was every once in a while the engine pto handle would fall out of gear. Other that=n that shes a dream. I really want to get my eyes on that shaft and see what gave.


Thank you so much for your time. I really respect your alls passion and feel out of place by barging and and saying fix my stuff......lol. Im mechanically inclined and have a machinist backround so I am capable. Lost but capable...ty

First of all it's not a '53 MF 35. The MF 35 didn't show up until Ferguson and Massey merged. The TO-35, the MF 35 predecessor, came on line in '57 I believe. The fact that your 3 point can be lifted by hand is normal. I believe the pto has its own clutch part of a two stage clutch system where the first stage releases the pto and the 2nd stage is the driveline. The pto drives the hydraulic pump. It you are hearing a shaft wobbling around in the case just behind the transmission the pto shaft may have sheared or the shear coupling came off. Take off the right side access plate and take a look. You may have to drain the fluid out to be able to see everything the other possibility is the clutch needs adjusting or replacement but that doesn't sound like your symptoms..Get a factory manual before you attempt a repair. You can most likely do it but you'll need a manual. A parts manual would also be helpful.

Good luck

 

[gding287]

Hey Coss thanks for the info and your time to respond. I went ahead and tore her down to find the hydraulic lift pump was in two pieces. This is not a normal situation....hahaha! I believe what happened was when using a new to me tiller I over did it and torqued the pto shaft which inline torqued the shaft going through the pump itself. I was amazed how easy this thing was to remove. Took about an hour and a half once the oil was drained. I almost fainted when I reached in there to feel around for a broken part, still full of oil and I felt chunks everywhere. Sure enough it was ice. Checked runout on pto shaft and it is golden. Rebuilding the lift cylinder mech today while I have her off and ordered a replacement pump for 250 plus rebuild kit (might as well). It will take a week or two to get. They are used in other tractors as well and can be bought for 450 new.

Thank you too Jerry. It is confirmed to be a 1954 TO 35 deluxe ( deluxe is the two stage clutch)

As for the Ground PTO it was the lever in which Coss mentioned had slipped out of its groove and would only throw the gear in one direction. Must of really racked this thing.. I inspected the gears pretty close (helps to work at a machine shop) and they are in great condition. As Jerry stated the PTO shaft system was part of the problem as well so you are both correct. This has been in my possession for 15 years now and has been very faithful so I will return the favor and make her good as new!

Again thank you both! During reinstall I will snap some pictures and may even do a short video of her running.

Only thing ive ever done was switch this tractor to 12 volt, change the oil and tires. They really don't make them like they used too!

 

[coss]

Hey, I'm really glad the fix is working out for you. Perhaps you and I are the only two MF owners who whack things hard enough with our PTO-driven implements to temporarily shock the shaft badly enough to shake things loose.

I agree with you about the build quality of this line of tractors. The gears are as big as those in a battleship. It is also very easy to fix things inside the gear case by simply draining the oil and opening one or both covers. I was also pleasantly surprised how easy it is to find parts, despite the fact they were built 60 years ago. Something tells me that Fancy Brand tractors made in 2015 will not have replacement hydraulic pumps on the shelf in 2075.

I would like to see your photos of the reinstall, so please post them!

 

[gding287]

You took the words out of my mouth. I sold my cub cadet "lawn mower" simply because the tins would vibrate. AND THATS A 2 GRAND LAWNMOWER! I pulled the dipstick cover and the lever covers prior to pulling off the top end. I was simply amazed when it was void of fluid how perfect she is in there. I read a tip that if you want to inspect the case you can pull the front end into a ditch and allow the oil to run forward revealing the linkage and gears.

I think its important to know the limits of your drive train :thumbsup: What a great idea on the 2 pc shaft design and simple cotter pin removal of the coupling.

As this happened the thought of a newer tractor came to mind but now that I know the community is active here and part availability is great so shes staying.

What kind of implements you run. I have now

6' deck
6' scraper
4' befco tiller

wanting an Auger as fencing is my next summer adventure.

Wouldn't you know we are supposed to get 10" of snow tonight.....sigh


Thanks Coss!

 

[coss]

You are welcome. When I fixed mine, I didn't have anyone to guide me. I did have the factory and I&T manuals, so it wasn't too hard to figure out what was wrong once I got the side covers off. I didn't need to remove the top cover.

As for implements, I have a 6' bush hog and a carryall. I may borrow a neighbor's plow and disc this spring. Mine has loaded turf tires and rear wheel weights, and it is very heavy--in excess of 6000 lbs. There are times I would like to have power steering, but I can live without it.

Its primary role is bush hogging 13 acres of fields. I did a lot of research before I got it, and the excellent reputation of the 35/50 and 135/150 series as bush hog machines is well-deserved. I find 1st gear to be ideal for cutting around the edges of fields where tree branches threaten to peel me off the seat, and the MH 50 is geared low enough to be safe. In fact, the span of gear ranges on the 35s and 50s is better than most other tractors of their vintage.

To keep water out of the gear case, I make sure the shift levers are covered to prevent rain from leaking in through the rubber boots. I know someone who did damage to their Ford 9n when they started it in the winter with an ice block in the gear box, so at least I didn't learn that lesson the hard way.

 

[gding287]

Great points! I did order new boots. They are not stock but bellows I made work from McMaster car. going to cut new caskets today. May not get it exact first time but a final trim can be done on site. Pretty sure ice in the case was the final straw for my pump too. Owners manual arrived yesterday and read a bit last night. Pulled in the mower deck (finish) and going to straighten up tins on it this weekend. I have a set of front weights and the rear wheel weights but have never needed them. Checking craigslist for cheap implements now

 

[Looking4new]

going to cut new caskets today. May not get it exact first time but a final trim can be done on site.

Rather than cutting new gaskets, why not clean up the mating surfaces (which you gotta do anyway) and run a bead of silicone and use that for a gasket?

 

[txturbo]

I have a 55 TO35 that I recently acquired and I've been shopping around for implements. I'm also buying 10 acres and need to spread a lot of dirt. I've been wondering if this tractor could handle a 6' box blade and mower. How does yours do?