3-Point Hitch Should the 3pt be able to lift this back hoe ?

[Duct tape]

1950's Massey Ferguson 35 gas .

I got this backhoe attachment a month ago hooked it up to move it to the garage for repairs. At first it picked it up a couple of inches. I had a death in the family and had to , Put the project on hold . Now I'm back the tractor won't pick it up at all is it a bad pump or have I overloaded it ? 2nd Question can I put a bypass on the 3pnt pump that would run this backhoe?
Just need to know if I should sell it and get a smaller one or will my tractor handle it .

 

[California]

Are you hearing a squeal from the hydraulic system, as the overpressure bypass opens?

And have you tried higher rpm to overcome fluid escaping sloppy clearances, in a tractor that old?

The backhoe in my sig photo below was originally sold as OEM for my tractor (and for the same size Kubota) but I can just barely lift it, it is sometimes marginal on squealing the bypass instead of lifting. Your tractor is at least a couple of decades older. It might need the hydraulic system brought up to spec to lift something that heavy.

Maybe start by getting the hydraulic pressure spec, and put a gauge on it to verify you still have spec pressure.

 

[PatrickS2222]

Hi, just saw this thread sorry for a late response.
Firstly, is the oil level sufficient? Also, is the correct oil in the gearbox and is its condition satisfactory? Be aware the gearbox oil is used in the hydraulic system. Any reading on its dipstick should be sufficient for it to operate. The dipstick is on the RH side cover, under the control quadrant. Check the oil with the tractor on level ground, and the engine stopped. If the oil is whitish-creamy colour, this usually means water contamination. A lack of sealing at the boots on the gear levers are the most common points of water entry. If the oil requires changing, lower the 3PT and if possible drain while warm ie after working for a couple hours, drain at both plugs overnight. Refill with SAE90 or 80-90 gear oil, Universal Tractor Oil or similar is also suitable. :thumbsup:
Secondly, are you using the lift correctly? Fully raise the Draft Control, and then control the lifting with the Position Control lever. This will allow it to lift to its maximum capacity, and allow you to control how high it lifts, where it stops, and it will then maintain that particular level by itself until the lever is moved again.
The pressure relief valve normally doesn't make a squealing sound - more of a hiss or squelch is likely. It seems this valve is positioned below the oil level. California is correct - tap into the hydraulics at one of the Allen-hex headed plugs at the sides near the front of the top plate, load up the lift arms and read the pressure.
Do you hear any type of clattering or clacking noise when it is trying to lift a heavy weight? This could simply mean wear in splined shafts, or broken pump mounting bolts which could be a bit of a mission to fix.
I can recall these tractors' 3PL being so strong that if the weight doesn't raise, the front of the tractor does. :laughing: But I need to realise these machines are now 50-60 years old, and could well need some TLC. I'm also getting into the same category! :ashamed:
Keep us informed - we all know that tractor should lift that implement with relative ease.

 

[LD1]

Impossible to answer if it's too much backhoe.

Don't know what the backhoe is, how much it weighs, how far you have that weight extended, what it's reach and dig depth are, etc.

Those old 50's and 60's tractors that looked like N series Ford's weren't known to have high lift capacities. As they didn't need it back then. And by today's standards, the 3ph components look wimpy compared to a modern tractor of similar weight and power.

Under normal circumstances yes the front of the tractor would lift first if you attached to something too heavy, but you have a loader on, so that changes that theory.

Do you have something else somewhat heavy to can test the hitch on? An old 6' bushhog? Or mounted disc? Or even a carry all platform you can load up with cement blocks to 1000# to give it a workout?

Not sure what you mean by "put a bypass on the 3ph to run it". You have a loader. How are those hydraulics ran? If the valve has power beyond, that would be a good source for power. As would a PTO pump with its own hydraulic tank.

In any case, the hydraulics need some serious work. I see more black iron fittings in that plumbing than I care to count.

Not sure when people started thinking it was okay to use a 150psi black iron fittings on a high pressure hydraulic system, but I almost wish hydraulics never adapted a NPT thread into their system. Leave it at JIC and ORB only, and that would make people use the correct fittings instead of whatever they can cobble together at the hardware store.

 

[PatrickS2222]

LD1, you're obviously much more alert than me - at least than I was late last night ..... I completely overlooked that the tractor has a loader! :ashamed: That "minor detail" changes the situation a lot.
I have a similar machine - an MF40 Industrial - also with a loader, complete with the associated rather heavy frame for strengthening the machine. It has PTO and 3PT, which make the machine much more versatile. Interestingly, the loader is supplied by its own crankshaft-driven pump. The control valve block has a threaded outlet (currently plugged) which, judging by photographs of similar machines, I believe is to connect a supply hose for the machines also equipped with a backhoe. The pump is quite large and would have a much higher flow than the 3PT pump. runs the most logical idea would be to tap into the loader hydraulic supply for a much better-functioning backhoe.
Additionally, I would not be optimistic about a 3PT-mounted hoe on that tractor - certainly not using the top link attaching point. At least mount the top to the triple-holes on the centre housing. Regardless of what thoughts and experience others have, these tractors certainly were not designed for their 3PT to cope with the forces of a backhoe. This one would have a similar loader frame to mine, which then would mount a backhoe very well on just a couple additional framing parts - these should be readily available second-hand from a "parted-out" machine. It then would be bullet-proof, taking all these forces on the additional framing fitted, which is huge and designed for this work. There won't be much expense involved, and IMHO the resulting machine will be so much more reliable and capable.

 

[Duct tape]

Thanks for the info on where to start . I wish that I had the time to try everything now but I won't for a couple of weeks . I will up date you on my progress.

 

[2458n]

The top link takes the force of the backhoe. Make sure the *** of the tractor can take this force. Your tractor was built to work with this hoe so go for it. A way to break stuff on your tractor is use the out riggers to raise the hoe - lift with the three point hitch- now raise the out riggers to move tractor & backhoe as one unit.

 

[PatrickS2222]

The top link takes the force of the backhoe. Make sure the *** of the tractor can take this force. Your tractor was built to work with this hoe so go for it. A way to break stuff on your tractor is use the out riggers to raise the hoe - lift with the three point hitch- now raise the out riggers to move tractor & backhoe as one unit.

The tractor itself indeed was designed to have both a FEL and a BH added ... that's why all that additional framing is fitted when that equipment is on one of these tractors.
The 3PL has remained largely unchanged since the grey TE20 series and was never intended to cope with the forces of a BH. The top link connecting point on the tractor was designed for agricultural implements. It also has a sensing linkage to the 3PL hydraulic valve which provides a draft adjustment when necessary. It was never intended to handle heavy or shock loads. It certainly was not designed to mount a backhoe. (An employee broke the top link mount off our 135 through abuse when that tractor was quite new.) The triple-holed mounting points below it are provided for these purposes. I have also seen and heard of many cracked top covers, broken cylinder mount studs and bent lift arms.
Additionally, even with outriggers the lower arms and their mounts will be trying to contend with forces they weren't designed to handle, and there will be considerable side-to-side movement if the outriggers don't grip the ground.
What I'm saying is that I reckon the loader frame being already fitted is a huge bonus and this provides most of the re-inforcing and proper mounting needed for the backhoe to be correctly fitted. It then will be solidly mounted with no movement at all. The front pump will provide good flow, and the end result will be quite similar to how MF and others originally built them. It would then also be much better unit to operate.

 

[PatrickS2222]

1950's Massey Ferguson 35 gas .

I got this backhoe attachment a month ago hooked it up to move it to the garage for repairs. At first it picked it up a couple of inches. I had a death in the family and had to , Put the project on hold . Now I'm back the tractor won't pick it up at all is it a bad pump or have I overloaded it ? 2nd Question can I put a bypass on the 3pnt pump that would run this backhoe?
Just need to know if I should sell it and get a smaller one or will my tractor handle it .

Hi, was wondering if you've made any progress in fixing this issue?

 

[WilliamTO-35]

That's a lot of weight for a MF 35 lift . I've seen a few other, heavier duty tractors that could not lift a backhoe.