MF GC Iseki Engines

[stewed]

I understand that the engine in the Massey Ferguson GC2400/GC2410 & GC2600/GC2610 are the same. The only difference is that they "turn the pump up a little".

Can anyone explain this difference to me?
Can this change be done by someone with a little know how?
Why pay ~$800 more for the same engine?

Also, if they are the same engine why would the two models have different RPM limits?

 

[roger 4400]

Hi ! I cannot answer your question because I'm asking myself the same question. The 1643 and the 1648 ( 43 and 48 HP ) have the very same engine, 134 cu.in, except the 1648 rev 100 rpm more ( 2600 rpm). So is it possible that a simple adjustment of ** don't ask me what** could give my engine 5 hp more ??? Is there a bigger injection pump in the 1648 ?? Is it good to push your engine to it,s limits by upgrading your engine ?? Is your (and my ) engine are *sleeping* a littlebit (so they will last long) and if we push them to their limit it would harm them ???Good luck , maybe your answer will serve me also , only an experienced mechanic could answer. See you. Roger

 

[tsteahr]

I understand that the engine in the Massey Ferguson GC2400/GC2410 & GC2600/GC2610 are the same. The only difference is that they "turn the pump up a little".

Can anyone explain this difference to me? My dealer told me he could change the settings to allow the higher RPM and higher HP output "in a few minutes"
Can this change be done by someone with a little know how? Depends on what is meant by a little know how. I suspect the physical changes are not difficult, however knowing what changes are needed without prior instruction takes more than a little know how IMHO.
Why pay ~$800 more for the same engine? My dealer asked me the same question when I asked about one vs the other

Also, if they are the same engine why would the two models have different RPM limits? Higher RPM of the GC26xx is how the extra hp and gpm are obtained

The GC24xx vs GC26xx has been discussed quite a bit, and if you search the MF discussions I think you will get more in depth answers. However give this thread a read for a quick rundown:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/massey-ferguson-buying-pricing/161695-gc2600.html

 

[stewed]

Thanks for the link and the topic was brought up but not discussed in detail. I'm still wondering if there is an adjustment that can be made to get that other 3 HP or if it's just the increase in the RPM's.

If it's the RPM's then would it hurt to run the GC24XX into the red? If it's the same engine then why couldn't it run at a higher RPM?

 

[tsteahr]

Thanks for the link and the topic was brought up but not discussed in detail. I'm still wondering if there is an adjustment that can be made to get that other 3 HP or if it's just the increase in the RPM's.

If it's the RPM's then would it hurt to run the GC24XX into the red? If it's the same engine then why couldn't it run at a higher RPM?

From what the lead mechanic at my MF dealer told me, the additional HP is gained through the additional RPM. In other words the GC26xx does not have any more hp at a given RPM than the GC24xx. The factory governor setting on the GC24xx won't allow RPM into the red range, only just up to it. To answer your first question, no I don't think it would hurt the 24xx to run into the red and this is what the dealer offered to do if I told him after I used the machine that I wanted more power.

To answer your second question, since they are the same engine it can, and does with the GC26xx settings, run at the higher rpm.

As I was discussing this topic with the dealer he commented that when MF went from the GC23xx series to the GC24xx/26xx the gc26xx was added to the line as a marketing tool to make their subcompact line look more diverse, more like the diverse line of the Kubota BX series. In terms of performance, the gc23xx is identical to the gc24xx. With the 23xx MF had only 2 subcompact models. I believe they realized they could get a increased profit margin if they offered another version of the same machine with the rpm turned up and added $600-$800 to the price.

When I bought mine the dealer had both 24xx and 26xx on the lot but suggested I go with the 24xx. That was when he offered that he could change the setting to the 26xx if I found the machine lacked power after I got it. He suggested the 24xx because the lower engine speed required for 540/2000 pto speed.

On a final note, the hp gained with the additional rpm is fairly small. Based on the specs section of the owner's manual, the gross hp is 22.5@2600 vs. 24.5@3000 (2hp gross), net hp is 22.0@2600 vs 23.9@3000 (1.9hp net) and PTO 18.7@555pto rpm vs 19.61@572 pto rpm (0.9hp at the pto). I don't know why the manual lists the 555 and 572 pto rpm for the different models. The manual also specifies engine speed at 540 pto rpm at 2532rpm vs 2829.

I suspect that truth be told, there is very little difference in power delivered to the pto at 540rpm between the models. In other words if you set both models to their true 540pto rpm (2532rpm and 2829rpm engine speed) there would be even less than 0.9hp difference at the pto. I suspect this is why there was never a GC25xx to go with the GC23xx. It would be interesting to see the torque curve of this Iseki engine I would bet the torque is starting to drop off beyond 2500-2600 rpm and that is why there is not a lot of hp to be gained with the additional rpm.

 

[stewed]

Thank you!!! That's a detailed answer I can handle. My dealer said a similar thing but couldn't justify his answer with anything concrete. They suggested that the pump was turned up a bit which I wanted to know how they did that. You mention adjusting the governor on the motor which makes more sense.

Also thank you for analyzing the differences (or close to lack of) of the hp at different rpm's.

I think I have what I have with power and so far it's adequate.

 

[roger 4400]

Hi! I do not want to highjack the tread but I can understand a gain of 2 hp for 400 rpm. But how to explain a gain of 5 hp for 100 rpm for the 1643 vs 1648 ???? The same engine (134 cu,in.). There must be other components that are differant on those models. Roger

 

[cdaigle430]

From what the lead mechanic at my MF dealer told me, the additional HP is gained through the additional RPM. In other words the GC26xx does not have any more hp at a given RPM than the GC24xx. The factory governor setting on the GC24xx won't allow RPM into the red range, only just up to it. To answer your first question, no I don't think it would hurt the 24xx to run into the red and this is what the dealer offered to do if I told him after I used the machine that I wanted more power.

To answer your second question, since they are the same engine it can, and does with the GC26xx settings, run at the higher rpm.

As I was discussing this topic with the dealer he commented that when MF went from the GC23xx series to the GC24xx/26xx the gc26xx was added to the line as a marketing tool to make their subcompact line look more diverse, more like the diverse line of the Kubota BX series. In terms of performance, the gc23xx is identical to the gc24xx. With the 23xx MF had only 2 subcompact models. I believe they realized they could get a increased profit margin if they offered another version of the same machine with the rpm turned up and added $600-$800 to the price.

When I bought mine the dealer had both 24xx and 26xx on the lot but suggested I go with the 24xx. That was when he offered that he could change the setting to the 26xx if I found the machine lacked power after I got it. He suggested the 24xx because the lower engine speed required for 540/2000 pto speed.

On a final note, the hp gained with the additional rpm is fairly small. Based on the specs section of the owner's manual, the gross hp is 22.5@2600 vs. 24.5@3000 (2hp gross), net hp is 22.0@2600 vs 23.9@3000 (1.9hp net) and PTO 18.7@555pto rpm vs 19.61@572 pto rpm (0.9hp at the pto). I don't know why the manual lists the 555 and 572 pto rpm for the different models. The manual also specifies engine speed at 540 pto rpm at 2532rpm vs 2829.

I suspect that truth be told, there is very little difference in power delivered to the pto at 540rpm between the models. In other words if you set both models to their true 540pto rpm (2532rpm and 2829rpm engine speed) there would be even less than 0.9hp difference at the pto. I suspect this is why there was never a GC25xx to go with the GC23xx. It would be interesting to see the torque curve of this Iseki engine I would bet the torque is starting to drop off beyond 2500-2600 rpm and that is why there is not a lot of hp to be gained with the additional rpm.

My dealer said the same thing but in less detail. Origionally I wanted the 2610 but they only had the 2410s on the lot, I was told that they would gladly turn up the injector pump for me after the warranty runs out if I felt I needed the extra 2HP. For me, I like my 2410 just fine the way it is, no need for 2 extra HP at this point.

 

[tsteahr]

I'm not trying to minimize the GC26xx. If there is a need for every bit of pto hp, the 26xx does deliver more. It is worth mentioning that while the hp differences are not that great, there is a more significant increase in hydraulic flow with the extra rpm. The 24xx is speced at 6.3GPM versus 6.9GPM for the 26xx. While I don't think the extra flow is needed for the BH or the loader, if someone was looking to use a hydraulically driven implement like a log splitter using the power beyond, that extra 10% gpm could be important.