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  1. #1
    Elite Member TomSeller's Avatar
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    A while back while backing the MF245 up to an implement a loud "whap, whap, whap, crunch, crunch, crunch" came from the engine. The engine was at idle at the time and oil was full when drained at tear down. Oil pressure was near pegged as normal for this engine. The engine had been recently rebuilt "professionally" according to the previous owner with probably 30 hours on it to failure. It's not always good to buy anything "just rebuilt" but if the price was right and it was a nice tractor......

    The #1 cylinder liner failed from what is expected just below the lip on the liner. The lip stayed on top of the piston along with apparently some liner fragments that must have been shoved up there by the piston? The "whap, whap, whap" sound was the rod smashing the liner into bits and the "crunch, crunch, crunch" was the #1 piston pulverizing the liner lip and liner fragments. The impact to the head popped the gasket as there were tons of white smoke (coolant ingestion) before the engine was shut down. The #2 and 3 liners pushed out by hand, so guess is the wrong liners were used or they were made wrong. The #2 liner is actually fractured off just below the lip and looks like it was going to be pulled into the crankcase next. #3 liner looks normal. I have not tried to re-insert the #3 piston into the liner yet to see if the fit was too tight ( liner too small). The #1 piston has damage at the top and on the side bits of what must be liner are imbedded into the piston.

    Turned this over to the shop for repair (hopefully) since this requires more time than I have right now.

    Anyone wanting to take bets on if this block and head will survive to run again?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -image-1463710642-jpg   -image-2262027555-jpg   -image-3058165852-jpg   -image-688956812-jpg  

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Massey 245 with Perkins AD3.152 Draws Liner into Crankcase

    Quote Originally Posted by TomSeller View Post
    Anyone wanting to take bets on if this block and head will survive to run again?
    Ouch, that's a tough call. My guess would be that either the wrong liners were used or they were poor quality aftermarket parts. I'm always very leery of anything for sale that was recently "rebuilt", and the word "professional" only makes me even more suspicious.

    How did the bores in the block look? How bad was other collateral damage?
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  3. #3
    Elite Member TomSeller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasseyWV View Post

    Ouch, that's a tough call. My guess would be that either the wrong liners were used or they were poor quality aftermarket parts. I'm always very leery of anything for sale that was recently "rebuilt", and the word "professional" only makes me even more suspicious.

    How did the bores in the block look? How bad was other collateral damage?
    The bores look okay, but haven't looked at the block end that much. The head is what is most concerning, it took a beating. Fortunately It was shut down fairly quickly. The "professional" part went out the window when a piece of all tread was found substituted for a missing head bolt. The story that came with the tractor is that an ex Navy guy that went to work for the municipality that originally owned it put the wrong injectors in it and punched out two pistons. No reference intended to my Navy friends, that was what the previous owner said. With the dish in the top of the piston, one would wonder how that could happen, but that was the story.

    I had thought the pistons for these engines had a nipple in the middle of the dish, these are simply flat bottom dishes. I will get more pictures. I sure hope this old gal gets on her feet again, she was rode hard and put away wet more than her share.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Massey 245 with Perkins AD3.152 Draws Liner into Crankcase

    Maybe thru the previous owner you can trace this "professional rebuild" and confront them. Most pro shops stand behind thier work. The catch might be your not the owner when it was done. Check your state and local laws to see if there is a "as is" law.

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    Default Re: Massey 245 with Perkins AD3.152 Draws Liner into Crankcase

    Quote Originally Posted by TomSeller View Post
    The bores look okay, but haven't looked at the block end that much. The head is what is most concerning, it took a beating. Fortunately It was shut down fairly quickly. The "professional" part went out the window when a piece of all tread was found substituted for a missing head bolt. The story that came with the tractor is that an ex Navy guy that went to work for the municipality that originally owned it put the wrong injectors in it and punched out two pistons. No reference intended to my Navy friends, that was what the previous owner said. With the dish in the top of the piston, one would wonder how that could happen, but that was the story.
    Anyone who would use all-thread as a head bolt is anything but a "professional". It might be a good idea to get the cylinder head magnafluxed to check for cracks, before having it machined for flatness, etc...
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  6. #6
    Elite Member TomSeller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasseyWV View Post

    Anyone who would use all-thread as a head bolt is anything but a "professional". It might be a good idea to get the cylinder head magnafluxed to check for cracks, before having it machined for flatness, etc...
    Right. A magna flux is on the list for the head. Not much was paid for the tractor and if she is rebuildable, it would put the total cost on the upper side for her condition and still under new a new one would be. Plus a new one does not have the cool factor. I sure liked her when she was running so it may be worth it for me. She bush hogged like a dream, plenty of grunt and very maneuverable.

  7. #7
    Elite Member TomSeller's Avatar
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    Here are pictures of #3 liner (complete) and #2 liner which was already fractured below the lip and the break already carbonized. I don't have much of a camera for close ups.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -image-1764589670-jpg   -image-4080100886-jpg   -image-2823993631-jpg   -image-850990524-jpg  

  8. #8
    Elite Member TomSeller's Avatar
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    The liners have "1000" marked on them. Does anyone know what this means? Is it a size?

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    Default Re: Massey 245 with Perkins AD3.152 Draws Liner into Crankcase

    Quote Originally Posted by TomSeller View Post
    The liners have "1000" marked on them. Does anyone know what this means? Is it a size?
    Without knowing more about who manufactured the liners, it's impossible to say for certain. Since most dry-fit cylinder liners for cast iron blocks typically have an interference fit of .001 to .002 I'd speculate that the "1000" marking may mean that the liner is .001 (1000th of an inch) larger than the bore it's intended to fit into.
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  10. #10
    Elite Member TomSeller's Avatar
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    Attached are pictures of the damaged #1 piston. Note the damage to the piston around the top rim from pounding the liner's lip into the head in the second picture. Also note fragments of liner imbedded in cylinder wall in the third picture.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -image-429316695-jpg   -image-3661395669-jpg   -image-1044036385-jpg  

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