3-Point Hitch Massey 150 strange hydraulic issues

[ssrider]

I just purchased a 1963 massey ferguson 150 with allied loader. The guy I bought it from just had the hydraulic pump rebuilt last year. The problem is that apparently the guy who rebuilt it didn't know what he was doing.. Somehow the 3ph does not work properly. It is linked to the bucket hydraulics.

For example, if I put the 3ph lever to the down position nothing will happen unless I also pull back on the bucket curl control. If I do this the bucket will curl down and the 3ph will operate as it normally would, but I have to keep the lever pulled. Also if I move the 3ph lever to the up position the 3ph will raise until it reaches the top and then the bucket will start curling up. The guy said before he took it in to get rebuilt everything worked normally.

Any ideas what is causing this problem? Thanks

 

[ssrider]

This issue is really confusing me. Does it sound like it could be something as simple as a wrong hydraulic connection? I tried lifting an implement today with the 3ph and the only way the 3ph controls will do anything is if I pull the bucket curl control lever back and hold it. The bucket first will slowly curl down and remain down until I try to lift the 3ph. When I try and lift the 3ph the bucket curls up until it bottoms the cylinders, then the 3ph will raise and operate up and down. As long as the implement is raised off the ground the bucket stays curled up(it seems the weight of the implement is creating the hydraulic pressure which holds the bucket up). as soon as I drop the implement to the ground and the weight is relieved the bucket starts to curl down again. I'd really like to fix this problem, any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[DLTTrekkers]

You need to fit a selectorvalve on your 3pnt housing right front where that 2 bolts keeps a plate inplace . When taking that plate off you l see a standpipe coming from the pump .

 

[ssrider]

You need to fit a selectorvalve on your 3pnt housing right front where that 2 bolts keeps a plate inplace . When taking that plate off you l see a standpipe coming from the pump .

Thank you for your reply. I'm not exactly sure where you are saying to install a selector valve. Here is a picture if the current setup. Also the previous owner claimed that he did not have this problem before it went in for service, and it did not have any additional valves then either.

 

[DLTTrekkers]

So you f gotten a controlevalve ......any ather selectors on the other side ? PHOTO PLEASE ?

 

[ssrider]

So you f gotten a controlevalve ......any ather selectors on the other side ? PHOTO PLEASE ?

There are no other control valves on the other side. Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding I do not have very much experience working on hydraulic systems but I would like to learn. Here is a picture from the other side

 

[ssrider]

Any other opinions on this problem? Is there some type of internal plumbing that could be hooked up wrong?

 

[SIMassey]

Any other opinions on this problem? Is there some type of internal plumbing that could be hooked up wrong?

What you are experiencing is quite normal. IMHO the former owner is feeding you a line of BS.

With the Massey valve, normally the left hand lever works in conjunction with the three point hitch and the two levers on the right hand side of the seat. If you did not have the bucket connected to this valve, the left hand valves has to be pulled toward the seat and held to operate the three point hitch. The right hand lever controls what is supposed to be a single rear remote.

In order to control the bucket as it is hooked up, you must fasten down the three point hitch so it doesn't move. Massey offered an attachment for this but you can chain it down to the drawbar and accomplish the same thing according to a dealer.

As this is currently hooked up, you cannot use the loader and three point at the same time without one or the other acting goofy.


One way to correct this is to add a two spool valve and supply oil to it from the right hand remote and return it to the opposite side of the same remote. You would then be able to use the loader without affecting the three point. You still will not be able to use the loader and three point at the same time. When using the loader you will need to center the left hand lever or else it will still affect the three point.

The only problem with adding only a two spool valve is you still will not have any remotes for implements without getting a three spool valve. You would then use two valves for the loader and one for the rear remote.

You could replace the Massey valve with a divirter valve and add a three spool valve but you would have to shift the divirter valve back and forth to operate the three point or the loader and remote.

I know this is confusing but thats how Masseys operate.



Are there any quick disconnects on the hoses for the bucket cylinders . You could disconnect these hoses from the left valve when using the three point and chain the three point when using the loader and have the hoses hooked up. A fairly cheap and easy fix but still limits the use of the three point and loader

Another observation is from your pictures, you need to change out the standard galvanized water fitting on top the valve and use fittings rated for hydraulic pressure. I think the pressure is about 2350 PSI. You would not want one to burst between your legs. You may damage something very important.

 

[SIMassey]

Rereading your posts, are you aware you need to have the lever closest to the seat on the right hand side pulled all the way back to the constant pumping position to operate the loader? The way you describe the operation of the bucket and three point has me wondering. The lift cylinder under the top cover under the seat that lifts the three point and the cylinder that operates the bucket are on the same hydraulic circuit. Both cylinders have to go full stroke when raising the three point and curling the bucket back. I am really wondering if you can actually build pressure when dumping. I have never had anything connected to the left valve to experience the same setup as you, but suspect that the oil is going back to tank when pushing the left lever forward, and the only reason the bucket dumps is the weight of the bucket and load causes it to dump. The reason I say this is that the three point hitch does not have down pressure only lift. The weight of the implement lowers the arms. So if the left hand valve is set for double acting cylinders which is what you should have on the bucket the oil is going back to tank rather than powering the dump stroke on the bucket. Post some pictures of the lift cylinders on the loader and the tip cylinders on the bucket. The rest of the info I have given I am sure is correct based on my experience.

Hope this helps rather than confuse. Let me know how you make out.

 

[ssrider]

Thank you very much for that information. It all makes sense to me now why it acts the way it does. Yes i was aware i had to have the leaver in consant pumping mode to use the loader. To be honest I'm not sure if it is just the weight of the bucket causing the dumping, Ill have to test that out later. I don't plan on running any implements that require a rear remote so I will look for a two spool valve to run of the right stick as you suggested. It is a pain constantly having to chain things up.

Also if I do add the two spool valve running off of the right stick, what do I do with the left stick? Do I plug the outputs that are currently plumbed to the bucket curl?

 

[SIMassey]

Also if I do add the two spool valve running off of the right stick, what do I do with the left stick? Do I plug the outputs that are currently plumbed to the bucket curl?

Yes, plug the ports on the left hand valve after disconnecting the bucket hoses. You should be able to get plugs with o-ring seals. I think the thread and pitch is a 3/4 -16.



After the hoses are removed and ports plugged, you should be able to run both the position lever and draft lever in transport position and raise and lower the three point with the left hand lever. If you are needing precise height control on the three point, lock the left hand lever back toward the seat and use the position lever to raise and lower the three point to the height desired. If it doesn't work, post back and I will explain the final needed adjustments to the valve. When ordering a new two spool valve, consider a joy stick, it will be even more convenient than an old style two spool valve. I don't think the price is much different. J. J. on the hydraulics forum usually suggests a brand hydraulics joystick. Its rated for a maximum of 10 gallons per minute. The Massey pump only puts out about 4.5 gallons per minute. This valve is avalible from surplus supply. Check out the hydraulics forum with a search and you should get lots of threads.

 

[ssrider]

Yes, plug the ports on the left hand valve after disconnecting the bucket hoses. You should be able to get plugs with o-ring seals. I think the thread and pitch is a 3/4 -16.



After the hoses are removed and ports plugged, you should be able to run both the position lever and draft lever in transport position and raise and lower the three point with the left hand lever. If you are needing precise height control on the three point, lock the left hand lever back toward the seat and use the position lever to raise and lower the three point to the height desired. If it doesn't work, post back and I will explain the final needed adjustments to the valve. When ordering a new two spool valve, consider a joy stick, it will be even more convenient than an old style two spool valve. I don't think the price is much different. J. J. on the hydraulics forum usually suggests a brand hydraulics joystick. Its rated for a maximum of 10 gallons per minute. The Massey pump only puts out about 4.5 gallons per minute. This valve is avalible from surplus supply. Check out the hydraulics forum with a search and you should get lots of threads.

Yes I like the idea of joystick control. I just found one on sale at a local store and am hopefully picking it up today. So, I will have to feed this joystick from the right stick. Does this mean I will always have to have that stick pulled back? Or is there a way to disable the valve portion and have it constantly feeding hydraulic fluid?

 

[SIMassey]

Yes I like the idea of joystick control. I just found one on sale at a local store and am hopefully picking it up today. So, I will have to feed this joystick from the right stick. Does this mean I will always have to have that stick pulled back? Or is there a way to disable the valve portion and have it constantly feeding hydraulic fluid?

If you keep the Massey valve, to use the loader, you will need to center the left valve, and pull and hold the right hand lever to supply a constant flow of oil to the new valve. To use the three point you will need to pull and hold the left hand valve and center the right hand valve.

You could replace the two spool massey valve with a divirter valve. This may be a bit more simple than using the Massey valve. The divirter valve will need to be shifted to run either the three point or the loader. You can google "massey ferguson 150 hydraulic valve" and you should get several sites.

When removing the Massey Valve, lower the three point arms completely when removing the Massey valve to relieve stored fluid in the lift cylinder in the three point. Carefully remove the the valve. There are o-rings and teflon seal rings that retain the standpipe that goes down into the main pump. If the standpipe pulls out you must drain off a couple gallons of fluid and remove the draft speed cover on the right hand side of the differential housing (the one with the dipstick) and replace the orings on the standpipe and guide the standpipe correctly into the hydraulic pump.

I think someone posted an entire thread detailing this procedure.

Switching to a divirter valve will of course add additional cost but may offer a cleaner and smaller hookup elliminating the large valve on top the transmission. You could then sell the Massey valve on e-bay to offset the cost of the joystick and additional hoses and fittings. The new valve should have power beyond which will allow you to add another valve downstream should you ever decide you need rear remotes.

Be advised, a couple of years ago, someone was trying to remove his Massey valve and had a very difficult time. It is held down with two socket head cap screw, the kind with the internal hex for use with an allen wrench. Well, the tractor sat out sometime in its life and got water in the counterbore where the head of the bolt is and rusted so bad he had to drill the head off to remove it. Just a word of warning. Socket head cap screws are generally a grade 8 and tough as nails to drill. If you are on a tight schedule, you may need to allow more time for problems such as the bolts and standpipe.