GC2410 vs GC2610 HP vs RPM.

[AxleHub]

Thats what Im doing-same iseki engine (2610) and one runs higher rpm all the time and the other lower (2410). I now the transmission might be different gearing but Im not concerned so much with HP as I am with rpm on the blower auger.

Cdaigle,

Your snowblower is designed for a certain auger/impeller movement based on the PTO speed at 2600 engine rpm. If you increase the engine rpm to 3000 on the gc2410 - the auger/impeller will be turning at a greater speed than it was designed to run at because the pto is running at a greater revolutions than it was designed and geared for.

You stated you aren't after an HP increase. So your goal is to spin the snowblower components than they were designed to spin at ???? What benefit will you achieve from that? Couldn't you just change the snowblower drive gear slightly to accomplish the same thing ?

 

[RalphVa]

As far as I can tell the 2400 and 2600 are identical engines, pumps etc right? The only difference is the tachometer gauge and possibly the fuel pump is tweaked on the 2600 series.
Why cant I always run my 2410 with RPM pegged so I can get a little more horsepower?

I don't know why tractor people get so afraid of rpms. Our 1983 240D was designed to run all day long at about 4,300 rpm. Same for the "tractor" engine in a TR-3B I had. Whereas, my Miata engine will pretty much run all day long at 7,200 rpm, and many race car engines will run the whole race at 10,000 or more rpm.

Just run it where you need it to be to get the power you need. On my JD 4010 (like a 2019E if they made them today), it needed about 3,000-3,100 rpm to do its job a good bit of the time. Now, my JD 2025R can run at only 2,500 rpm and get the same job done. This is because I really only need about 19 hp to the jobs I do. The 4010 put that out around 3,000 rpm. The 2025 puts it out this hp at 2,500 (or thereabouts).

Don't worry about what you're revving it to and whether it's doing any harm. If the rev limiter doesn't cut it off, the engine will do it absolutely all day long because 3,000ish is not very high.

Ralph

 

[AxleHub]

Greetings Cdaigle,

I'm guessing you may be confusing some of us more than you recognize.

In one post you state: "Why cant I always run my 2410 with RPM pegged so I can get a little more horsepower?"

But in a different post: "I'm not concerned so much with HP as I am with rpm on the blower auger."

I'm not in any way arguing we all want as much "potential available" power as we can have for the size and choice of machines we have. And if you have the skills and desire to alter your unit to achieve it - I guess that's fine. Just understand that its more than just the engine you are altering. If you're trying to get more HP as you stated in one post - by increasing your RPM - then you will likely want to adjust your pto gearing or implement gearing to be more in line with the other engine model because you would likely want your rear and mid pto's to operate at suggested speeds and not significantly 15% to 18% faster.

On the other hand if your desire is increased pto RPM for your implements as you stated in another post and not more HP then adjusting the implement or pto gearing would not require you running at 3000 RPM engine speed because the gearing change would take care of it.

 

[cdaigle430]

Greetings Cdaigle,

I'm guessing you may be confusing some of us more than you recognize.

In one post you state: "Why cant I always run my 2410 with RPM pegged so I can get a little more horsepower?"

But in a different post: "I'm not concerned so much with HP as I am with rpm on the blower auger."

I'm not in any way arguing we all want as much "potential available" power as we can have for the size and choice of machines we have. And if you have the skills and desire to alter your unit to achieve it - I guess that's fine. Just understand that its more than just the engine you are altering. If you're trying to get more HP as you stated in one post - by increasing your RPM - then you will likely want to adjust your pto gearing or implement gearing to be more in line with the other engine model because you would likely want your rear and mid pto's to operate at suggested speeds and not significantly 15% to 18% faster.

On the other hand if your desire is increased pto RPM for your implements as you stated in another post and not more HP then adjusting the implement or pto gearing would not require you running at 3000 RPM engine speed because the gearing change would take care of it.

Sorry for the confusion. Was clearing 14inches of heavy wet snow and took a video of it. My dad saw the video (he has been around diesels for 60 years) and said my engine RPM is too low. I was at 85% throttle at the time just at the upper edge of where the 540 in green is for the tac). He said diesels are made to run better at higher RPMs than at lower-its better for them.
I notice when I max out the throttle my tractor bogs down a little less with the thick wet snow. I was trying to figure out Agcos logic when it comes to so called gimmick advertising. It said the MF GC2410 runs at lower RPM than its competitor like the BX24 or BX25 Kubota. yet the 2610 is about the same rpm as the BX. Claimed they designed it that way partially for longevity.
So, I was looking at answers as to why I cant turn up the fuel injector and run it normally close to 3000 rpm. I see no reason especially from an engine perspective to not to.
I dont have to but I want to So do I stick with "If it aint broke, dont fix it" Or "Bring it On!" What would Tim the tool Man Tailor do and can I live with the consequences of that choice

 

[AxleHub]

Sorry for the confusion. Was clearing 14inches of heavy wet snow and took a video of it. My dad saw the video (he has been around diesels for 60 years) and said my engine RPM is too low. I was at 85% throttle at the time just at the upper edge of where the 540 in green is for the tac). He said diesels are made to run better at higher RPMs than at lower-its better for them.
I notice when I max out the throttle my tractor bogs down a little less with the thick wet snow. I was trying to figure out Agcos logic when it comes to so called gimmick advertising. It said the MF GC2410 runs at lower RPM than its competitor like the BX24 or BX25 Kubota. yet the 2610 is about the same rpm as the BX. Claimed they designed it that way partially for longevity.
So, I was looking at answers as to why I cant turn up the fuel injector and run it normally close to 3000 rpm. I see no reason especially from an engine perspective to not to.
I dont have to but I want to So do I stick with "If it aint broke, dont fix it" Or "Bring it On!" What would Tim the tool Man Tailor do and can I live with the consequences of that choice

I think you're getting a couple of things confused when you are comparing Kubota bx compared to you GC2410 - and RPM.

the Massey info you were reading is quite correct - the GC's (just as the Yanmar 2400's of years past - could do more things with their FEL etc at lower RPMs for a very specific reason - Kubota BX units have a single hydro pump that operates steering and everything else. As a result - the BX units "must" run at higher rpms to get the fel actually changing position without the "sun setting" LOL. You'd notice a huge difference at 2000 rpm what a GC can do compared to a BX - and that is true on the 2400 or 2600 GC series or and of the GC 1700 series. Massey GC units split the hydro flow to 2 pumps - one specific for the steering and one for all else. That means steering isn't prioritized at the sake of fel movement. BX's are great units - but you need to "spin them" them more aggressively - or have alot of patience waiting for your power and speed of movement to develop.

Now if your dad was watching your video - I have to imagine he was seeing either the impeller on your blower - which is blower RPM's - or he was hearing your engine bogging down - and frankly 14 inches of wet snow at 85% of rpm means you likely weren't at 540 spin at the rear PTO or 2000 at the front pto - or you were trying to move forward too fast for that heavy a load. All of our GC units old or new - are based on getting 2000 on the mid pto or 540 on our rear pto - thats PTO rpm - not engine rpm. in the 22.5 hp engine version those PTO RPMs are produced at 2600 engine rpm and in the 25 hp engine its at 3000 rpm. 85% of either of those numbers is not producing your maximum torque and maximum hp and not producing the desired 540 or 2000 pto revolutions - and as a result your blower impeller is not producing its maximum load output its designed for.

And lets assume you were trying to move the tractor along at a decent normal pace under those conditions - but this time its 14 inches of wet heavy snow. You can't get the tractor movement with that load that you would with 14 inches of flakey snow - so you need to be at 95% or 100% of your RPM normal and moving the tractor a little slower to get maximum throw.

Typically, diesel engines are high torque units run at lower engine RPMs - where gas engines need higher engine rpms.

Now the same thing that happened with you in winter - can be reproduced in summer when you go up a steep hill. if you push your foot pedal down more - you increase your tractor travel speed - but on a hill the engine will start to chug/die - because you can't do both more travel speed and greater resistance load unless you boost your engine rpm to either your 2600 or 3000 approved levels. Many rookies when they first get their tractors think something is wrong with their tractor - when they are in hi gear and start climbing a steeper hill and the tractor sputters or kills - when in reality - they need to be in lo gear and not pushing their foot pedal down so much. They forget as rookies that a car or truck has an accelerator - but a tractor has an rpm lever for engine rpm and a hydro pedal for land speed.

Now here is my personal example with my GC1715 (25HP) unit. When I am running my mid mount mulching mower deck I often run the engine RPM at 2300 rpm on flat normal height lawn. But I find moving it to 2700 to 2800 is advisable on either thicker, taller and "not fully dry" lawn. The deck also quiets down more too. I normally never run at 3000 rpm. And I love being able to "creep" up to bucket and fork lift activity at 2000 rpm - which I could not do with a BX which would need to be at 2800 or 3000 just to get the fel moving some and not barely shifting position.

 

[cdaigle430]

Thanks for everyone's input.
Tried it WOT yesterday because we got 18 inches of heavy wet snow and I did get to thow snow a few feet farther than when the rpm was at the 540 mark on tac-went back and forth several times to prove it. Was 18 inches of heavy wet snow so it did not throw very far though. I dont think any snowblower can when the snow is this wet. It did the job well though....my 60 Woodmaxx snowblower is very good and I am very happy with the tractor blower combination and the Berco softcab.
So for my findings you can WOT the GC2410 but will only gain some benefits in certain attachments like a 540 snowblower only in certain types of snow density. I would not WOT the GC2610 though as its already up there.