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  1. #11
    Super Star Member J_J's Avatar
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    Sep 2003
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    JACKSONVILLE, FL
    Tractor
    Power-Trac 1445, KUBOTA B-9200HST

    Default Re: Hydraulic Issues - Diagnostic help

    If this is an open center hyd system, and the hyd flow is like this. Pump to loader, to 3pt , to tank.

    Since all pump fluid flows through all valves, there should be no pressure when the valve levers are in neutral.

    The loader spools if working normal, should block all flow to the loader cylinder.

    I could see this happening if the loader valve spool is not returning to center so that when you cause the pressure to build by using the 3pt, therefore blocking the fluid, will cause the pressure to build up and affect the loader valve.

    Did yo?u make any changes to the hyd lines before this happen
    J.J.

    When I works, I works hard. When I sits and thinks, I goes to sleep.

    Git er done.

  2. #12
    Elite Member Xfaxman's Avatar
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    Feb 2013
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    Location
    Meridian, OK
    Tractor
    Bobcat V417 Toolcat 5610 F TORO+Loader

    Default Re: Hydraulic Issues - Diagnostic help

    Quote Originally Posted by sruman View Post
    See Picture (drawing) attached. This may help us get a clearer picture on the hydraulic system. Pretty basic.
    oldnslo: to answer your question, it takes ALOT of force to move them, barely humanly possible. The handles are being pushed toward the front of the tractor (away from driver).

    kennyd: The fluid distributor is a "box" that the power steering lines ties to. Nothing more than that (see pic).

    By looking at the pick, I think the line 2 (from box B to D) is either clogged, or the distributor (Box B) is clogged. Reason: when I raise the 3PH, rather than fluid come from distributor box (Box B, line #2 on diagram), is it sucking the fluid from FEL Control (Box C). I cannot think of any other reasonable explanation. Again, I'm no mechanic, but it makes logical sense to me. Unless anyone has a better idea, I'm going to tear apart that box and line and make sure they are clean.
    Attachment 311714
    That is not the way hydraulics work. Your problem is flow is going in the out port of the loader valve, causing the bucket to dump and the lift cylinders to retract. When did this start happening?

    My idea is the problem is in the 3PH circuit.

  3. #13
    Super Star Member J_J's Avatar
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    Sep 2003
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    18,034
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    JACKSONVILLE, FL
    Tractor
    Power-Trac 1445, KUBOTA B-9200HST

    Default Re: Hydraulic Issues - Diagnostic help

    It is normal for the 3pt to cause a pressure buildup when the lever is held in the raise position, and the relief valve will sound off, and the relief pressure will back up into any valve upstream and cause problems.

    If the up stream valves and spools are working, the loader cyl should not operate with the back pressure. If you try and use the loader with the 3pt lever raised, the back pressure will work against the pump pressure and cause problems in the valve, and possibly blow the seals.
    J.J.

    When I works, I works hard. When I sits and thinks, I goes to sleep.

    Git er done.

  4. #14
    Elite Member Xfaxman's Avatar
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    Meridian, OK
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    Bobcat V417 Toolcat 5610 F TORO+Loader

    Default Re: Hydraulic Issues - Diagnostic help

    Quote Originally Posted by J_J View Post
    If this is an open center hyd system, and the hyd flow is like this. Pump to loader, to 3pt , to tank.
    J.J., in his drawing the 3pt is before the loader. The plate on the 3pt reminds me of the old Massey Ferguson system for adding a cylinder. You had to lock the lift arms to use it.

  5. #15
    Elite Member Xfaxman's Avatar
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    Meridian, OK
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    Bobcat V417 Toolcat 5610 F TORO+Loader

    Default Re: Hydraulic Issues - Diagnostic help

    Quote Originally Posted by sruman View Post
    I have a Satoh 650 and I have a unique problem that is occurring, and not sure the answer. I've read many many threads, but cannot find a reasonable answer/assistance with my particular issue.

    Thanks in advance.

    Matt in PA.
    Please answer our questions.

    Did it ever work right?

    Did you make any changes to the hyd lines before this happened?

  6. #16
    Super Star Member J_J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
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    JACKSONVILLE, FL
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    Power-Trac 1445, KUBOTA B-9200HST

    Default Re: Hydraulic Issues - Diagnostic help

    Quote Originally Posted by Xfaxman View Post
    J.J., in his drawing the 3pt is before the loader. The plate on the 3pt reminds me of the old Massey Ferguson system for adding a cylinder. You had to lock the lift arms to use it.
    On most tractors, without loaders, the pump fluid goes to the 3pt, and there is some kind of distribution unit somewhere, similar to the kubota hyd block.

    When a loader is mounted, the fluid is now routed to the loader first and back to the hyd block, and then to the 3pt.

    He could easily take a hose off and verify the flow path.

    A hyd gage would help with the troubleshooting.

    It is just not logical to have to raise the 3pt when you want to use the loader.

    Which relief valve has priority, 3pt or loader?




    .
    J.J.

    When I works, I works hard. When I sits and thinks, I goes to sleep.

    Git er done.

  7. #17
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    84
    Tractor
    Satoh 650G

    Default Re: Hydraulic Issues - Diagnostic help

    1. They never worked since I bought it (3 yrs ago). Just now getting around the trouble shooting.
    2. I did not make any adjustments or mess with the Hydraulics.
    3. I think I have a bigger problem now. I have coolant running out of my oil pan seal. I'm going to go out on a limb, and say this is not good, and the engine is now junk.

    Anyone need a used Satoh that needs a new engine? Where could you even pick up an engine for one? Cost? I'm thinking that it's not worth fixing, and probably need to just part it out. There are many new parts and tires that have value.
    Thoughts?

  8. #18
    Elite Member Xfaxman's Avatar
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    Meridian, OK
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    Bobcat V417 Toolcat 5610 F TORO+Loader

    Default Re: Hydraulic Issues - Diagnostic help

    Quote Originally Posted by sruman View Post
    Anyone need a used Satoh that needs a new engine? Where could you even pick up an engine for one? Cost? I'm thinking that it's not worth fixing, and probably need to just part it out. There are many new parts and tires that have value.
    Thoughts?
    I think you should start a new thread in this forum about the leak, and if you want to sell it, list it here: Private Party Ads, and on craigslist.

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