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  1. #1
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    78
    Tractor
    Satoh 650G

    Default Hydraulic Issues - Diagnostic help

    I have a Satoh 650 and I have a unique problem that is occurring, and not sure the answer. I've read many many threads, but cannot find a reasonable answer/assistance with my particular issue.

    First, my tractor has rear draw bar and a front loader. It has the separate control units for each (rear draw bar is standard, like is on all models). The valve control assembly for the loader may or may not be orginal. Not sure.
    The issue is this: When i raise the draw bar (demand fluid), my levers on the loader valve control snap forward, dump and lower the loader. This continues to happen until the bar is raised to the required height. It seems to me (backyard mechanic) that when the bar is raised and demands fluid, it is pulling from the loader control valve assembley, causing the loader to dump and lower. Here are some other facts to help with diagnose the issue:
    * Only occurs when bar is raised.
    * Loader works fine when used independently.
    * Lowering bar has no effect on loader or control valve assembly.
    * Fluid levels are good.
    * Filter is clean.
    * Speed on bar and loader (up and down) are good (good pressure).

    Is there a check valve or something in place to prevent this? Can you help pinpoint the issue any further?

    Thanks in advance.

    Matt in PA.

  2. #2
    Advertiser kennyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
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    11,873
    Location
    Westminster, MD
    Tractor
    John Deere 4110, 455

    Default Re: Hydraulic Issues - Diagnostic help

    Matt, I will try to help-but lets get some terminology straight first:

    The "drawbar" you are referring to is really the 3 Point Hitch (3PH). A drawbar is fixed, and used to tow wagons and trailers-it's usually a thick metal bar that extends out from under the rear transmission case.

    The valve the controls the 3PH is usually called the "rockshaft" lever/valve.

    You stated "good pressure", did you test it? If so how?
    How many hoses are connected to the valve body that operated the FEL (front end loader)? 6 or 7?
    Can you take pictures of how it's (the FEL valve) is plumbed to the tractor?


    I suspect that the FEL valve is plumbed in "parallel" with the 3PH, but I am not familier enough with your machine to know for sure yet.
    KennyD
    www.boltonhooks.com



    Bolt On Grab Hooks, Weld On Grab Hooks, Specialty Chain Accessories, Specialty Hydraulic Components.

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  3. #3
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    78
    Tractor
    Satoh 650G

    Default Re: Hydraulic Issues - Diagnostic help

    Thanks for setting me straight. I'll get the pictures to you tonight.
    You are correct. Not a draw bar, but the 3PH "bar".
    Good pressure due to the fact that the speed of hydraulics is fine, nothing else. No official pressure testing.

    As noted, stay tuned....news at 8.

    Thanks.

  4. #4
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    78
    Tractor
    Satoh 650G

    Default Re: Hydraulic Issues - Diagnostic help

    First pic is the FEL controls. There are six hydraulic lines. Two run to the top of the hydraulic "cap" by the rockshaft (pic 2). they other four run to the FEL cylinders. -imag0013-jpg-imag0014-jpg

    Question, could the hydraulic "distributor" be clogged or something, causing the draw of fluid from the FEL valve control? Just a thought.

  5. #5
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    149
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Tractor
    several kinds and sizes

    Default Re: Hydraulic Issues - Diagnostic help

    I dont have a loader on my 650, so I cant be of much help!---sorry! thanks; sonny580

  6. #6
    Advertiser kennyd's Avatar
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    Jul 2003
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    11,873
    Location
    Westminster, MD
    Tractor
    John Deere 4110, 455

    Default Re: Hydraulic Issues - Diagnostic help

    I am not sure what the "distributor" is so I can't help with that. Is this a new problem to has it always done this (at least as long as you've owned)? I am trying to think of how lowering raising the 3PH will trip the FEL valve, so yes I am stalling a bit.
    KennyD
    www.boltonhooks.com



    Bolt On Grab Hooks, Weld On Grab Hooks, Specialty Chain Accessories, Specialty Hydraulic Components.

    Simple JDParts Tutorial HERE

    Visit our YouTube Channel

  7. #7
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,637
    Location
    Northern, IL
    Tractor
    Branson 2400H

    Default Re: Hydraulic Issues - Diagnostic help

    sruman,
    While operating the 3PH and the FEL controls move can you try moving one of the FEL controls to see how force it takes to move them back to center. This might give us a clue.

    Also are the handles being pushed away from the valve body or pulled towards the valve body when this happens?
    Artificial Intelligence will never overcome natural stupidity.

    Branson 2400H MMM & FEL

    JD 112

    BX1850 gone but not forgotten

  8. #8
    Elite Member Xfaxman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    3,225
    Location
    Meridian, OK
    Tractor
    Bobcat V417 Toolcat 5610 F TORO+Loader

    Default Re: Hydraulic Issues - Diagnostic help

    I added some labels to the first picture.

    What is the "OUT" hose connected to?
    -imag0013-jpg

    Is there a tee connector on either hose from your other valve?
    -imag0014-jpg

  9. #9
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    78
    Tractor
    Satoh 650G

    Default Re: Hydraulic Issues - Diagnostic help

    See Picture (drawing) attached. This may help us get a clearer picture on the hydraulic system. Pretty basic.
    oldnslo: to answer your question, it takes ALOT of force to move them, barely humanly possible. The handles are being pushed toward the front of the tractor (away from driver).

    kennyd: The fluid distributor is a "box" that the power steering lines ties to. Nothing more than that (see pic).

    By looking at the pick, I think the line 2 (from box B to D) is either clogged, or the distributor (Box B) is clogged. Reason: when I raise the 3PH, rather than fluid come from distributor box (Box B, line #2 on diagram), is it sucking the fluid from FEL Control (Box C). I cannot think of any other reasonable explanation. Again, I'm no mechanic, but it makes logical sense to me. Unless anyone has a better idea, I'm going to tear apart that box and line and make sure they are clean.
    -hydraulic-diagram-jpg

  10. #10
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    78
    Tractor
    Satoh 650G

    Default Re: Hydraulic Issues - Diagnostic help

    Quote Originally Posted by Xfaxman View Post
    I added some labels to the first picture.

    What is the "OUT" hose connected to?
    -imag0013-jpg

    Is there a tee connector on either hose from your other valve?
    -imag0014-jpg
    Thanks for the labels. Very nice. Now, both the in and out lines of the FEL control, and connected to the top plate on the 2nd picture, with no tee.

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