77 Satoh Beaver S370D wont start, low compression

[HomesteadOC]

New to me beaver S370D, serial number indicated 77 or early 78 model year. Seller said it just wouldnt start one day, thinks glow plugs are bad. Got the non-running special for $2500, came with a front loader and theres little to no rust anywhere, fluids all look good. Got it home, ignition switch looks like its not for a diesel, glow plugs were wired to ignition on so they probably fried themselves running hot the whole time. Tested the circuit and I get 12v there, but plugs dont get hot, let alone warm. Ordered new correct switch, glow plugs, all the filters and fluids. Compression is at 275psi for #1, 300psi for #2, I put some lucas oil ATF cleaner in there the first day and then some high mileage ATF the second day. So far its been sitting for 2 days with the ATF cocktail in the cylinders. My hope is that the rings are stuck and this will loosen them up and return compression to something above where it needs to start at. If that doesnt work Im going to try some seafoam or restore. The mechanic Ive talked to on the phone says it looks like re-ringing is in my future. What results have you guys got from just a re-ring? Ive never worked on diesels before so Im not sure how great a job just a re-ring is going to do. I guess it all depends on how the cylinders are looking. I would just prefer not to buy the $900 build kit and pay for it to be bored and all that.

 

[HomesteadOC]

Compression issue is fixed, but it still wont start. Soaked the pistons in some high mileage formulated ATF and some lucas oil for a week. Compression tested at 455psi on #1 and over 550psi on #2, Im not sure how Im possibly getting that high of a reading on #2. Its the harbor freight $30 diesel compression tester, Ill retest again tomorrow after work. I installed new glow plugs NGK 6825 (10mm 1.25 thread), plugs read 10.5v when lit. I didnt check for sure they are glowing hot, but they are warm to the touch on top after 30s of warming. I killed the battery trying to start it a few times, so Im going to leave it on the charger all night and tomorrow and Ill double check my plugs and compression tomorrow. Im pretty sure Im getting diesel in the cylinder because when I was doing the compression test I was getting a nice diesel mist all over my beard. Also when I got it the injector fitting was loose and leaking fuel all over the engine in pulses when I first tried to start it. The diesel is left over from the previous owner and is probably around 3mo old. The only thing I can think of to do next is to get a pull or push start if my charging and starting doesnt work.

 

[thepumpguysc]

IF you had left the oil concoction in the cylinders when doing the compr. test.. its possible that's what your reading..
Remove ALL the gp's, spin the engine over till its all out & re-do the compr. test..
IF, as you suspect, its low compression, it should read in the low 200's..
Anything over 300 will start a diesel engine.. 500 & you got yourself a race tractor.. Lol

 

[thepumpguysc]

Get rid of the old fuel..
How long are you leaving the gp's on for..??

 

[HomesteadOC]

IF you had left the oil concoction in the cylinders when doing the compr. test.. its possible that's what your reading..
Remove ALL the gp's, spin the engine over till its all out & re-do the compr. test..
IF, as you suspect, its low compression, it should read in the low 200's..
Anything over 300 will start a diesel engine.. 500 & you got yourself a race tractor.. Lol

I cranked the engine for 10s and shot the ATF all over myself to clear it, then did the compression test and got the high readings. During the test the other plug was left out on each so that shouldve cleared anything left over. Not sure how else to clean out the ATF apart from removing the head and wiping it up.

When I get home from work today Im hoping my new fuel filter will be sitting on my doorstep. If so Ill drain all the old diesel, replace all the fuel lines and the filter, bleed with new diesel and try again. Im planning on checking the plugs and making sure they are glowing properly. I count to 30 slowly while I warm the plugs try to crank for 10s then glow the plugs for another 30 slow count until the starting sounds weak then go organize the garage for an hour until the charge builds back up. Also the glow plug indicator was previously bypassed with a figure 8 of bare wire across the terminals, Ill re-bypass it with a straight shot from the switch with new wire. I contemplated buying a new indicator, but they were around $60 so that will wind up on the wish list for now.
The new ignition switch is coming today as well hopefully and that will make me feel better knowing my plugs wont be on constantly while the engine is running. Also a new battery might be in my future, the old one is dated 9/15 and it seems pretty weak cranking against the increased compression, but maybe thats the starter. Ill put some distilled water in there today too.

 

[HomesteadOC]

Fuel filter was there, but nothing else. I already had a roll of fuel line so I replaced all the old lines, filter and old diesel. The new diesel looks more blue than the old stuff so maybe it was bad? I grounded out the battery while removing the tank to get the last bit of old diesel out so I couldnt crank it. I did bleed the fuel system and noticed that the injectors were ganged together with some fuel line and had a broken T between them, I couldnt see where the broken part of the T would go to, anyone know? I didnt have another T and I dont know where it went anyway so I just connected them with a straight piece of fuel line. The only thing that would make sense is connecting them to the overflow outlet to the fuel tank? Thats the closest thing, but the line coming out of there just points down. It would seem that having that open to air would let air in the fuel and cause the iniectors to not work properly? After dinner I cranked it to purge the injector lines and then tried to start, but my battery got too week and that was the end of that. Ill try cranking some more tomorrow, hopefully my ignition switch arrives. Im getting blackish smoke coming out of the exhaust during cranking and the glow plugs are getting hot. Maybe my battery is too weak to turn this beast over with the increased compression? I wasnt able to retest compression because of the battery being grounded out, but I didn notice it was low on water so I topped it off with distilled. I ran out before I could get all the cells so Ill have to pick up some more tomorrow. 5/6 cells should be sufficient though, right? What little cranking I did was done with the throttle pulled back 3/4 of the way towards the rear of the tractor I played with it a little in the top 1/2 of the throttle position to see if it would crank any easier or harder in certain spots, but I didnt notice a difference.
Everything leads me to believe that this engine should be cranking easily, there must be something really simple that Im missing. I have new diesel, hot plugs, plenty of air (I removed the intake for testing until new filter arrives), the only thing that I can think of is a weak battery or weak starter. Possibly some safety switch, but from what I read in the ops manual is that it wont allow the tractor to even crank if the safety switches are not engaged. Do I need more cranks to cycle the rest of that old diesel through the line? Is my battery to blame? Maybe wrong glow plugs? Online I see it takes 12mm 1.25 thread NGK, but my head has a 10mm hole and I replace them with what was already there (NGK 6825). Maybe its something to do with the incorrect ignition switch? The seller had it running with that switch and that broken T in the fuel line. Any help or advice is much appreciated, thanks.

 

[HomesteadOC]

Just watched a bolens G154 video from steve to see where that hose goes and it looks like it goes to that fitting on the tank. Ill pick up a T on the way home tomorrow and get that plumbed in, but it doesnt seem like that would cause it not to start. Is that hose to equalize the pressure on the injectors, overflow, or maybe some kind of self bleeding apparatus?

Steve: I couldnt get a video uploaded, but my smoke looks a lot like your G154 with low compression that you honed out. The difference I see is your cranking speed is faster and you get yours started. Ill try again tomorrow, but I might just buy a new battery if I have to keep charging for hours after I top off the water in the 6th cell.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Can you run some jumper cables from your work truck to the weak tractor battery, for starting purposes?
It has to spin over quite fast.. inorder to achieve ignition.. The glow plugs only "help"..
I don't know how long your supposed to hold the gp's on.. but I did work on a 2 cylinder "Universal" sailboat engine once & the owner couldn't get it started..
I tried & tried.. I went thru the entire fuel system, pump, injectors, filters, compression.. still no start..
Luckily he had the operators manual.. 1st thing it said was, "push the glow plug button down & hold for 90 seconds".. WHAT?? 90 SECONDS??
THATS ALONG TIME.!! I did it & the engine roared to life in 2 turns of the motor..

 

[HomesteadOC]

I have a jumper that plugs into 120VAC that is supposed to able to jump cars. I leave it plugged in and connected while Im jumping or “charging” the battery. Ill give the 90s a try after work, Ive been doing 30-60s warming between start attempts. Also its worth noting that Im in Southern California and were having 70+ degree days and this tractor is on the West side of a light colored stucco garage. The sun gets it pretty warm by the time I get home.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Hmmm.. you would think that the 30-60s would be sufficient?? but then again, I was starting w/ a rebuilt/proven fuel system.
Any chance in calling the previous owner & asking him "the trick" to getting it started?
Glow plug count, throttle position.. that sort of thing..