Ford 1710 - Slow and Weak Rear 3pt Lift - Help!

[RMJ22]

Recently bought a 1710 4x4 with FEL (Ford 770A). Everything works but the rear hydraulics are very weak. The arms will raise and lower but if you put any weight on them (even my 230lbs. Dad) the arms will not raise and if the engine is not revved high they will even go back down slowly.

The previous owner had flushed the hydraulic fluid and then run it/take off the hydraulic oil filter, empty and replace about 10 times and got the hydraulics moving again (it had been frozen and water was in the oil). He got alot of the milk out, but the oil he put in it was AW-46 and it was still very milky. So I bought some New Holland 134G hydraulic oil and replaced it with a new filter yesterday. (The only hydraulic oil filter I know to change is the big one on the lower left side of the engine (when sitting in the seat). Are there any other filters or screens I should check?)

With the new 134G oil in it, once the system primed itself, the 3 pt. started raising and lowering much faster (what I wold think is normal) and was very strong with me standing on it. So I thought the problem was fixed!

So today put the box blade on it and it won't even lift the box blade. You could see it trying but it wouldn't even pick it up off the ground. So I took the blade off and the lift was so weak it won't even lift me off the ground now.

The arms still raise and lower but are very weak, just like before. The oil is still milky although not nearly as bad, but its still white and not clear at all.

Can this be enough to cause my problems? If I keep flushing the system do you think the lift will start working like its supposed to? Or do I have a bigger problem?

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!!

 

[JC-jetro]

several things can effect the pump and it's operation restriction on the suction side causing cavitation leading to lack of pumping ability same as A fibrillation in human heat. Second can be restriction on the supply size causing high pressure and very low flow. You might simply have a tired pump either due to seal damage and internal hemorrhaging or actual gear/case damage or basically worn beyond the point of effectively pumping. You'll have to eliminate one by one to find the cause. What have you done so far to correct your problem?

JC,

ps. Welcome to TBN Blue

 

[RMJ22]

Thank you! So far all I've done is drain the hydraulic oil filter numerous times are running to empty out the moisture/trash that has collected there. Then I completely changed all the fluid.

What is encouraging to me is that it worked so strong with fresh oil, until the trash found its way into the new oil, which is now also milky.

 

[JC-jetro]

Thank you! So far all I've done is drain the hydraulic oil filter numerous times are running to empty out the moisture/trash that has collected there. Then I completely changed all the fluid.

What is encouraging to me is that it worked so strong with fresh oil, until the trash found its way into the new oil, which is now also milky.

That is actually a good sign. I went to NH website and it does not show an inlet screen on the suction side of located on the rear diffy. I was not able to see how suction tube ties to the diffy. How does suction line tie to the duiffy? do you have a picture for it? On mine I do have a large inlet screen in lieu of spin-in filter. That was horribly plugged with debris. I made a vacuum collection system along with a shop vac and was bale to suck up more than several quarts of oily glue with oat meal consistency. I think you might have a situation like that in the bottom floor of rear diffy. All the oil returned to diffy as a reservoir and since area is relatively large the ft/min of oil is very low causing more of settlement of solid. The pick up tube does not suck from the bottom but from the side so certain amount of settlemnet on the bottom should not cause restriction on the suction.

JC,

 

[RMJ22]

I don't know how th suction tube ties in, but I'll take a pic and post it. I'm hoping you can show me where that inlet screen is, because I bet its clogged!! Thanks for your info. I don't have a shop vac but was wondering it they sell any kind of a flush kit for the hydraulics or if there is any other way I can suck out the gunk? Or what if I used a plunger on the drain hole?

 

[3nickles]

first,is the loader strong ? it works on the same pump system right ? I suspect it is the seal inside the hydraulic cylinder that lifts the 3 point hitch or even an o ring in the valve.
i suspect the cylinder first not a expensive fix but labour intensive.

 

[JC-jetro]

I don't know how th suction tube ties in, but I'll take a pic and post it. I'm hoping you can show me where that inlet screen is, because I bet its clogged!! Thanks for your info. I don't have a shop vac but was wondering it they sell any kind of a flush kit for the hydraulics or if there is any other way I can suck out the gunk? Or what if I used a plunger on the drain hole?

going to NH website and I could not identify that you had any screen in the suction tube other than cartridge filter. I hope a 1710 owner chimes in.To see where the suction tube goes, locate the pump in front of tractor on the right side where timing gear cover is. you'll see two pipes attached to the pump. the bigger dia pipe is the suction line. follow the suction line to see where it ends up. below is how inlet pump on mine is attached to the diffy. you'll also see the dirty screen in which I don't ink you have.

[img=http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8816/dsc04365i.th.jpg]





you can not use a plunger .. although it is pretty unique suggestion. look at the pic below, it is kind of self explanatory. the left side was connected to a garden hose and the right connection was my shop vac. The little white bucket held the muck. The only reason I used it was not to dirty my shop vac. I suggest that you invest in a shop vac. Can't imagine without it. The garden hose afforded me to get in to diffy dip and keep sucking it up crap with out any further dis-assembly. it picked up more than 2 qrts of stuff.





I have not seen any flush kit but a guy can rig up something. cleaning the oil pathways, and removing source of the moisture in is the key of correcting your problem. continuing of pump cavitation will end up to irreversible damage to pump.

jc,

 

[JFS2295]

>>>>Recently bought a 1710 4x4 with FEL (Ford 770A). Everything works but the rear hydraulics are very weak. The arms will raise and lower but if you put any weight on them (even my 230lbs. Dad) the arms will not raise and if the engine is not revved high they will even go back down slowly.

Restricted return flow and hopefully not a worn hydraulic pump. Diversion valves can also be a problem, but rare.

As far as I know the is no other filtration other then the spin-on filter.

The 1710 hydraulics can be problematic with water in the hydraulic fluid (know from 25 years of experience and counting ). While any milky fluid slows the hydraulic action, the first thing I have to ask is have you played with the flow valve under the front of your seat? It's the round knob with a turtle and rabbit insignia? That controls how fast the 3pt will go up and down.

I found that any milkiness from water will slowly clog the return filter affecting the flow and pressure output. I've recently had it clog to the point I believe I had cavitation and no movement of the FEL or 3pt.

When you are changing out the fluid, are you removing all the drain plugs? There are 3 (2WD) or 4 (4WD). The best way I've come up with for draining milky fluid from my 1710 is to raise the 3pt with an implement and if you have an FEL raise that all the way up. After pulling all four plugs on mine and the filter I drop both the FEL and 3pt. Not sure how much that helps, but I do it. Then leave the plugs out for 24 hrs if you can.

Flushing out all the milk may take several tries. If you are going to do it several times it's more economical to use something like 134s equivalent from TSC for the flushes. But in between the dumps of flushing oil run the tractor through a full heating cycle operating all of it's functions to try to get all the fluid through hiding places. I will run mine for 8 hrs.

I have a hard time believing that the prior owner flushed 10 times and still there is milk. I'd give him a slight amount of slack if he didn't open all 3 or 4 plugs. And 10 flushings would be quite expensive! The quick backyard check for water contaminated problems is to quickly change the hydraulic filter without draining all the fluid. If the hydraulic function is restored immediately (and it may not be for long!), you know water is being caught by the filter.

I would also as if you keep the tractor outside? The rubber boots on the shifters do not fit tightly over time and that is where my water had entry.

 

[RMJ22]

Guys, thank you for all the information and suggestions. I did not have time to work on it this weekend but am hoping to on Wednesday evening!

JFS - Mine is 4x4 and I did not know there were 4 drain plugs! I only drained one, which is under the operator. How can i find the other 3 holes? I'm assuming the front differential uses its own reservoir? Guess I need to invest in an owner's manual but thats another $40!

Also, a clarification. . .the previous owner changed the fluid once; it was the filter he drained 10 times.

And regarding flushing the hydraulic system, the service manager at my local dealer suggested emptying the reservoir, flushing with diesel fuel to get the crud out, and then refilling with hydraulic oil. Any reason not to do this just this once? I can't imagine the diesel is too good for the seals and bearings but it does have some lubrication in it.

Lastly, I haven't forgotten to post the pictures, just haven't had time with my work schedule yet. Coming soon. . .

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[JFS2295]

Playing with the filter only wasn't going to get the job done. I'm not sure I would agree with using diesel fuel as a flushing agent. I'd be too worried about the lack of proper lubrication to the hydraulic pump, and to the transmission's bushings and gears.

Opening only one of the four drain plugs leaves a fair amount of water contaminated fluid in the system. That could be why you are still having issues. But another reminder to check the flow valve under the seat for hydraulic speed control of the 3pt.

Here is page 30 of the owners manual which at the lower right in figure 44 shows the four drain plugs. I don't have time right away, but you can send me a PM about a pdf copy of the owners manual unless you want a nice heavy paper manual. Double clicking on the image will bring it up full screen.

I find it's in the rear end cavities where water likes to hide.