River boat transport and choice of model

[AkTractor]

I'm new here and have enjoyed reading many posts, searching topics, and I bought and reviewed the electronic compact tractor book.

I'm in the market for a compact tractor that I want to use mostly at home for mowing (.5 acre), snow removal in (I'm in Alaska but it is only a 3000 Sq ft driveway), and rarely for some light duty landscaping.

Once every year or two I want to break the tractor down and take it 86 miles up the river in my inboard jet boat which can haul up to 2000 pounds freight. My property up the river is quite uneven with dips and rises. There are frequently fallen 10 inch trees half buried under the vegetation, and some small swampy areas. The cabin property chores would include: some trail building, bushhog cutting and every 5 years digging a new outhouse.

The challenge is that I need to get the tractor stripped down to less than 2000 pounds (perferrably less than 1500 pounds) to haul in my boat.

I would go with a TC18 or TC24 HST if I thought it was adequate for my needs at the cabin property (even if I have to do the work slowly in lowest "gear"), but I am concerned about STABILITY on uneven ground at the cabin (arguing for a bigger tractor). This concern causes me to lean towards the TC30 FWD HST which is about 1900# without the wheels/tires. I would take attachments and wheels up on separate boat runs. I have a way to drop the equipment into my boat in town, and I would pull it out of my boat up at the cabin with a 10,000# 12V DC winch I have up there and skid it out on boards for reassembly. I'm wondering which model I should buy....

Another question I have is how bad would R4s tear up my lawn, particularly if I had a TC30.

Any feed back would be appreciated.
Bill

 

[hazmat]

Well this has got to be one of the more interesting questions I've seen here on TBN.

First off, a heavier tractor doesn't necesarily mean more stable. I've got a TC18 & some pretty uneven property. So far I haven't managed to tip her over yet, although I've gotten a wheel off the ground on occasion.

Loading the tires helps with stability, but adds weight (~400# for TC18) - which you are particularly sensative to due to your boat's freight limitations.

A larger tractor will do more work, ie more horsepower for brush hogging & more weight behind it when digging. You didn't mention how big your cabin property was, but a TC18 -24 will more than handle your .5 acre & 3000 sq foot driveway. I use mine on 4 acres & have a similar size driveway. We got 8 feet of snow last winter!

Don't know how fast your boat goes, but unless your cabin property is huge, I'd rather minimize the 86 mile boat trips to get your tractor there. With the smaller tractor, you could take the tractor with wheels on in one trip & implements (FEL & Backhoe) in a second. Sounds like the TC30 would require 3 trips.

Regarding the tires. It depends on your soil. In my sandy/silty soil the R4's tear up the lawn in the spring. I ended up buying a set of turf tires for mowing. I got a great deal, but retail it would have been $800+. For your house, I'd say turfs are the way to go, for your cabin, I'd say R4's or even ag tires would be the way to go. Maybe you can get your dealer to throw in the second set of tires for his cost (~$600).

Where in Alaska are you? I toured the state a few years back, very beatiful place.

 

[AkTractor]

Thanks Hazmat. I'm in Anchorage, my cabin is way way up the Yentna river about 60 miles from Mt McKinley (Denali). I looked at a TC30 today and it seems huge for my in town applications (but perfect for my cabin application). I'm going to look at the smaller stuff also, but no one in Anchorage has a TC18 in stock. I have 35 acres at the cabin but I won't be touching more than an acre or two with the tractor. The local dealer quoted me $25k for a TC24 with R4s, LA12, 756C, and all the necessary hardware to attach everything. Seems kind of high... but shipping is expensive I'm sure.

When I am working on putting in a trail if I come across a fallen log buried in the vegetation I plan to just dig around it a bit to the point I can lift it a few inches or more off the ground on one end and start cutting it up with the chain saw (not going to try to lift logs or anything like that). Those fallen logs are the worst obstacles I would face. If the TC18 would be up to careful use at my cabin, I think it would be my preference to go small. I won't be pulling big loads up there and can do what I lack horsepower for slowly in low gear. My brushcutter would just have to be a small one. (I have a backpack Shindawa brushcutter BP35, but it wears me out using it).

 

[hazmat]

How big are these fallen logs? You'd be amazed what a TC18 will climb over or push/pull out of the way. If you are only maintaining an acre or two of the cabin property I'd say a little boomer is the way to go.

When I bought my TC18, the TC24 didn't exist. The TC21 was $2K more, not worth it for 3 HP. But The TC24 is only $2,500-$3000 more than the 18. Seems that 6 HP (30%) more power might be worth that differential.

 

[AkTractor]

I can get over most of the fallen logs with a regular 4 wheeler, typically they stick up 10 inches, vary in diameter 8 16 inches, I would run into one every 25 yards typically, and I could fill in on both sides to get over them also instead of cutting a 5 ft gap in the log for the trail.

With the TC18 PTO HP of 14 vs 18.5 for TC 24, does that mean that the backhoe 756C has more power on the TC24? I'm not sure how that works exactly. I'm not sure what the curl force on the 12LA is but it must be alot more than the 750# lift, and the curl force could lift the log enough to chain saw it I would think. I am liking the idea of the TC18 financially and for ease of transport, and it would be perfect at home I think.

Can a TC18 rip up an asphalt driveway if you allow alot of time for the work?

 

[hazmat]

PTO horsepower doesn't affect the backhoe as it is powered off the hydraulic pump. New Holland doesn't list pressure on their online specs (pdf) but the TC21 & 24 do have more flow (gallons per minute - gpm) which means faster operation of the backhoe & loader. In order to get more force, the pressure (pounds per square inch - psi) has to be greater.

The extra pto horsepower means you can power a bigger brush cutter or go faster with a smaller one. I have a 48" woods on my TC18. I can sense the strain when using it while going up a steep hill. I simply slow down a bit & the tractor is happy.

I have the older loader (7106) 600# lift ~1,200# curl force. It will lift 8-10" logs clear off the ground. Knocking down live trees is another story, they are much stronger than you'd think. The loader isn't strong enough to pull out stumps bigger than 4" either - but the backhoe should work well for that.

Never tried to dig up asphault with it. I don't have a backhoe, but supsect that it would be the weapon of choice vs, the asphault. If using a loader, I'd recommend getting a toothbar.

For your shopping info, I got a TC18 & loader for $12,500 in New England a year ago. The south & Midwest seem to have better pricing. I expect you'll pay a premium for shipping to AK.

 

[OkeeDon]

The 12LA loader has almost as much potential as the 7308. It will lift logs (but I wouildn't want to lift them more than a little, as you said, because the back end will come off the ground). The TC18 also has over 1200# lift force in the 3PH, so you might be able to rig a tree lifter to the back that would be more stable and get them high enough to cut up. A TC18 with a 12LA will break up an asphalt driveway (we've done it), it will break up small concrete slabs (such as under an old 10x10 shed; again, we've done it), it will even knock over and dig out pine trees to about 3" trunk (but you have to work at it).

When the ground is muddy enough to leave a footprint if you walk on it, the R4's will tear it up. You can mitigate it a bit by using 2WD and making gradual turns. I don't know what it costs to run your boat, but I suspect it wouldn't take very many trips to justify the cost of buying a set of R4's (with the rear tires loaded) and leaving them at the cabin, and a set of turf tires for your house.

<font color="blue"> Can a TC18...(insert your favorite task here)...if you allow alot of time for the work? </font>

It's been my experience that a TC18 can do almost anything a larger tractor can do if you work at it and worry it enough. There are obvious limitations - when it runs out of power, it runs out - just like any tractor does at some point. When I rented a 270HP turbo diesel CAT loader/backhoe I ran into some things it couldn't do.

But, for any task that you can take in smaller bites, the TC18 will do it. Bush hog 4' wide intead of 5', carry a little less per load in the bucket, etc.

 

[Hoeman00]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( When I rented a 270HP turbo diesel CAT loader/backhoe I ran into some things it couldn't do.
)</font>
I never knew Cat had that large of a loader/hoe, what model was it?

 

[AkTractor]

I'm renting a B21 TLB tomorrow to work around my home property and see what that is like. That is the only compact available to rent here. It is more like a TC30 in terms of its weight and ratings, but at least I'll have a chance to see what a compact TLB can do. Have a list of chores for it once I'm up to speed on it's controls.

 

[OkeeDon]

It was a CAT 416C. I know it had a turbodiesel. After looking it up, I see I was far, very far, off the horsepower figure - it had 78 HP. I don't know where I got the 270 number; either the owner said something that stuck in my head, or I dreamed it. Just shows that I should always research before I type... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

It was still pretty powerful...

By the way, yesterday I used my TC18 to take out a pine tree that was about 5"-6" in diameter and about 15' high, but I really had to work at it. I ended up knocking it over and breaking it off about 18" above the ground, then digging up the root, which was deeper than I've ever seen for a pine. Took about an hour, but I never got off the tractor. It was the only tree right where I wanted my driveway.