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  1. #1

    Default New (to me) NH1725

    Hello. First off, I am new to the forum and want to say that this is a great site with lots of information. I have been reading threads for a while, but this will be my first post. I apologize that it is lengthy.

    I recently bought a Ford/NH 1725 MFWD with 2 PTOs (rear and middle) 97-99 model with 5790 hours. I know it has a ton of hours , but I think for a tractor that starts turn key, and fully functions for $1600 wasn't a bad deal, so long as I don't have spend a lot of money on it. It is not without some issues though, but nothing that I didn't know when I bought it. If I can get another400-600 relatively trouble free hours out of it I think I will be happy. So far I have put 4 hours on it pulling a 6' finish mower and it runs a operates well, considering how many hours are on it.
    • Engine smokes gray/blue at startup and under load, but starts to clear up as it is worked. It is more grayish in color, but never completey goes away. Engine seems to make good power and doesn't bog under load. After 4 hours of use it seems to use about a pint to a half qaurt of oil. For now I will monitor it and add as neccessary. Not worth rebuilding until it gets much worse. Is there anything I might try to slow down consumption? Currently using Rotella 15-40.
    • The clutch works good, but when starting out with the mower engaged, it slips a touch before fully engaging. It isn't a problem, but it will need to be monitored and not abused to extend the useful life.
    • The starter seems to drag/not have full strengh. It looks like a reman unit. The engine turns over slow, but starts reliably. I have yet to test it with another battery, or remove it and have it tested.
    • The front drive shaft rear universal joint is destroyed. Looks like something bound up in it. The spider is toast, front yoke is toast, the rear yoke has some damage to the metal but might be reused. Right now needing FWD is not a priority, and the local NH dealer says $209 for the u-joint assembly, so I will start looking for a used or alternate source for the part.
    • Previouse owner put 14" trailer tires on the front that don't seat well around the bead and leak down slowly. Rear tires hold air, pretty well and have decent tread, but are really weathered and have some plugs. I will probably start looking for blems for the front first and then the rear.
    • Three point position lever seems to have more tension than normal to slide. Is there an adjustment for this? I have lubricated all the moving pieces/pivot points to make sure they weren't bound up (left break pedal was sticking, but after grease works great).
    • Throttle pedal cable broken and spring missing, missing some bolts for the bodywork/dash/firewall, one missing hazzard light, broken grab handle, worn out battery cables, misc minor items.


    As you can tell, this is no showroom tractor, but after using it for 4 hours, it does every thing I need pretty well, which is mostly mowing. I don't plan on spending a ton of money replacing things that are not perfect that still function or have useful life. I would like to hear any tips or advice anyone can offer up to a new owner. I am not new to tractors, but this is the first one that I have owned.

    Thanks,
    Bill S.

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Kernopelli's Avatar
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    Default Re: New (to me) NH1725

    Congrats on a new tractor and welcome to the forum. Even with the issues it has you got a bargain priced tractor.

    As far as oil consumption advice, I recommend Lucas Oil Stabilizer. I usually consider most of those bottled additives to be snake oil but I am sold on this product.

    You may want to try adjusting the clutch pedal and see if that helps. Other than that, the best thing you can do to preserve the clutch is use lower range/gears than you might feel you need to. I have babied an old clutch that would barely pull the tractor in high range/gear for months and months by using the lower gears only. It can be an inconvenience but it will go a long way in stretching out it's usable life.

    The "starter issue" may just be the battery but even if it isn't, at least it is working now. Check it with a good battery and if it still drags, start looking for a good (i.e. cheap) source for rebuild/replacement so when things go south you can be ready to fix it with little down time.

    To me, the FWD would be an issue I'd want to address after I felt reasonably comfortable with the tractors reliability. If all you are going to do with it is mow I wouldn't put a ton of $$$ in it. I'd be checking with the salvage yards and see if it could be fixed relatively cheaply...if not, let it go.

    If you don't fix the FWD, I wouldn't worry about the smooth trailer tires on front. Maybe try a little fix-a-flat or keep a compressor handy.

    The lever issue may just be something binding up (don't know what else it could be without more first hand info.

    As far as the rest...don't worry about them. Use the tractor a while and then decide just how much NEEDS to be fixed and how much you want to spend in the long term. For right now, you've got a functioning tractor for a Lowes/Home Depot lawn mower price and that's pretty sweet.

    BTW, here at TBN, we like pictures maybe you can stir our collective minds with a little eye candy of the new beast.
    Darryl

  3. #3
    Veteran Member jbrumberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: New (to me) NH1725

    wjsizewmore77:

    Welcome to TBN and the Blue Forum ! Keep watching your oil consumption. Darryl has offered decent recommendations. JC jetro will be around soon to help you out with your questions . Use your "new" tractor safely and well. Jay
    NH TC29DA with 14LA and HD QA 60" bucket, weighted R-1's, FOPS, CCM M-160 (58") Tiller, Tebben MD 60" Rotary Cutter, Woods LR 108 (96") Landscape Rake, FEL cutting edge and tooth bar, Woods GB60 (60") Box Blade, Wallenstein BXM32

    1995 John Deere 455 Diesel with 48" mower, MC 519 Cart with PowerVac

  4. #4
    Elite Member JC-jetro's Avatar
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    Default Re: New (to me) NH1725

    Welcome to the blue Forum and congrats on your purchase. I can't see how you can go wrong on your purchase considering you full well knew what your are getting in to. Even if you spend on repair the same amount you bought it for would be still a great price. From your thorough explanation it appears fundamentally the tractor is in good shape and was not abused badly which 4000+ hrs is a testament to that. A top engine overhaul such as a head/valve job and replacement of piston and ring would be in your future to avoid the oil loss/burning but as long as you have good compression I'll let it go. I'm a bit concerned with too much blow by may damage crankcase oil and it's lubricity as it gets mixed with diesel fuel. How does the condition of the crankcase oil look ? do you smell diesel in the oil? What you don't want to risk damage to the Hyd pump. It is live and does not take much to get it damaged beyond repair if the hyd oil is bad, screen /filter plugged. Fortunately all the lift components and the pump overhaul components are readily available and they are not prohibitively expensive. Once the gears/bushing on the hyd pump is damaged replacement @ $800 is the only choice.. you want to avoid that. I have not done this myself but if you can take the u-joint off along with the drive shaft may be you can match an automotive replacement. I know I was able to get all belts and radiator hoses from local automotive store by visually matching the parts. if you find a matching u joint, or something that you can modify them. They are very inexpensive. All of the other issues are not major or difficult in nature and if you are hands on can be done inexpensively. The clutch is not difficult to replace on your size tractor , but a bit more pricey since it is dual clutch with live PTO. I think you probably have some time before you really need to do it. I have read here that Messick has pretty decent reman or new non OEM clutches at good price, I'll check with them also. By the way buy a $10 metric oring set from HF and you'll find 90% all the o-rings that you'll ever need, don't forget NH website as they have great parts breakdown and good pics to see what's going on. Guys here at TBN are great and there is quite a wealth of information readily available.. You ask and you shall get ... may be more than you bargained for

    Good luck and post a few pics.

    JC,



    Howdy Jay, I guess I was typing when you posted. Yo beat me to it buddy
    Ford 1700, 2wd.
    Kubota MX-4700DT, Gear transmission with LA 884 loader, Q/A and HD bucket.
    60" Woods Rotary Cutter, home made (3-pt boom and a Row Hipper) ,King Kutter( 5 ft Tiller,Middle Buster,Single Row Cultivator,Carry-all, 5 ft blade, 6 ft Landscaping Rake ,30" Dirt Scoop and a 4'x4' Drag Harrow)

  5. #5

    Default Re: New (to me) NH1725

    Thank you guys for the info. I will try to get some pictures up in the next week. I pulled the dipstick to smell the oil yesterday, and noticed maybe a trace smell of fuel. The oil has 4 hours on it, as I drained it and changed the filter as soon as I took delivery of the tractor. I'm guessing I should change it more frequently based on that and the fact that it has so many hours on it. What would be a good interval? Also, are there any downside risks to using the Lucas oil additive? I know they are a reputable company and many people swear by their products.

    The hydraulic pump was actually replaced by the previous owner not too long ago, so hopefully that should last a while. Will the blowby directly cause it to wear out, or just general hydraulic system not being clean? Draining the hydraulic fluid and filter change is next on the aggenda.

    I'm not sure what is meant by having a "dual" clutch. When I press the clutch, the PTO and gearbox disengage, but the PTO can overrun so the momentum of the PTO shaft doesn't keep driving the tractor foward. It doesn't have a dual clutch the way I think where you can press it half way and the gear box disengages, and then all the way to disengage the PTO. Either way I know they are expensive and I will try to preserve mine as long as possible.

    I am also wondering what is the propper group/amperage battery for this tractor? The battery in it is about worn out, and was not a direct replacement for it. Of course the people at my local auto parts store can't match parts for anything that isn't a chevy V8 or a Ford Explorer so they couldn't tell me how many amps I should have on it. I bought a 730/585 and it seems to turn it over good (considering the worn starter), but it was a bit too big so I need to exchange it.

    Again, thank you for the insight.

    Bill S.

  6. #6
    Elite Member JC-jetro's Avatar
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    Default Re: New (to me) NH1725

    Quote Originally Posted by wjsizemore77
    Thank you guys for the info. I will try to get some pictures up in the next week. I pulled the dipstick to smell the oil yesterday, and noticed maybe a trace smell of fuel. The oil has 4 hours on it, as I drained it and changed the filter as soon as I took delivery of the tractor. I'm guessing I should change it more frequently based on that and the fact that it has so many hours on it. What would be a good interval? Also, are there any downside risks to using the Lucas oil additive? I know they are a reputable company and many people swear by their products.

    The hydraulic pump was actually replaced by the previous owner not too long ago, so hopefully that should last a while. Will the blowby directly cause it to wear out, or just general hydraulic system not being clean? Draining the hydraulic fluid and filter change is next on the aggenda.

    I'm not sure what is meant by having a "dual" clutch. When I press the clutch, the PTO and gearbox disengage, but the PTO can overrun so the momentum of the PTO shaft doesn't keep driving the tractor foward. It doesn't have a dual clutch the way I think where you can press it half way and the gear box disengages, and then all the way to disengage the PTO. Either way I know they are expensive and I will try to preserve mine as long as possible.

    I am also wondering what is the propper group/amperage battery for this tractor? The battery in it is about worn out, and was not a direct replacement for it. Of course the people at my local auto parts store can't match parts for anything that isn't a chevy V8 or a Ford Explorer so they couldn't tell me how many amps I should have on it. I bought a 730/585 and it seems to turn it over good (considering the worn starter), but it was a bit too big so I need to exchange it.

    Again, thank you for the insight.

    Bill S.

    Bill,

    There should be a breather tube that is connected to the valve cover that acts like crankcase ventilation system , make sure the hose is not plugged, ventilating the hot crankcase can vent out some of the unburnt vapor that is laden with fuel vapors. As far as interval I really don't know, I do mine every 50 Hrs of operation and I suppose it also has to do with how hard to work your tractor. I use Rotella that cost me around $10 per oil change along with matched fram oil filter about $3.5. Spending $15 for a oil change is pretty inexpensive. I have never gotten to use additives but in general things like "engine Honey" tend to stick to metal better, have much thicker consistency to lesson blow by but the down side of it is that all component have to work harder in my opinion. I know in auction they fill the beat up car engines with engine honey so they can mask engine burning oil to be discovered in the first oil change. Not a nice thing to do.

    The blow by I mentioned was not for the hyd pump, what I meant was was in cylinder due to wear of the piston wall. It would have been a good time to replace hyd fluid when they changed the pump but you do not know for sure. The thing that kill the pump is th pump running without adequate flow due to restriction anywhere in the sys. pumps have some sort of relief in one form or fashion to keep pump from dead heading but can get really hot in that situation damaging the pump. The tolerance between pump gears, bushing and pump case is so tight that the pump can tear itself internally in no time without the help of oil film on the components. TSC sells Ford 134 compatible Mystick for, I think you'll need a it less than 3 gallons(need to check the capacity) and that should cost you about $50. Use the forum search engine and you'll find thread with many pics how I have done it on my 1700.

    Ford 1710 and 1725 are more advanced 3 cyl version of my 1700. Almost all of them have dual clutch although I found single clutch configuration for 1725 per CNH website. PTO on single clutch is transmission driven with internal over running clutch. On dual clutch as the name implies you have two pressure plate and two clutch disk sandwiched together. That enables pto shaft top operate independently of Transmission input shaft. a simple way of checking it is start the tractor , clutch all the way , engage the pto, put the tractor in gear. if you let the clutch release halfway the pto should turn with the tractor stationary, let go off the clutch all the way and the tractor should start moving. Conversely if you are moving and you clutch halfway the tractor should stop whilst PTO turning. dual clutch is more advantageous to tractor operation as you don't have to lose pto as you change direction (forward to backward). The dual clutch is almost always several time more expensive than single clutch but installation labor is almost the same. I reread your post again, juSt check it to make sure which one you got.

    As far as battery, 1700 series don't take a lot of juice to start. I bought the best 500-600 range CCA 5 year battery I could buy from Wally world , had it for two years now and I should think It'll last me good 7 year and I'll be getting my money's worth for sure.

    One last thing I forgot was checking the fuel pump which is another high dollar item, it does have it own oil reservoirs that you need to drain the old oil and add new. It take a a cup of oil or so. some use crankcase oil ad some are totally independent. Again, use the search tool and I have several references to injector pump oil change that you might find it a good read.

    Good luck,

    JC,
    Ford 1700, 2wd.
    Kubota MX-4700DT, Gear transmission with LA 884 loader, Q/A and HD bucket.
    60" Woods Rotary Cutter, home made (3-pt boom and a Row Hipper) ,King Kutter( 5 ft Tiller,Middle Buster,Single Row Cultivator,Carry-all, 5 ft blade, 6 ft Landscaping Rake ,30" Dirt Scoop and a 4'x4' Drag Harrow)

  7. #7

    Default Re: New (to me) NH1725

    Quote Originally Posted by JC-jetro View Post
    A top engine overhaul such as a head/valve job and replacement of piston and ring would be in your future

    Well I have 50 more hours on the tractor, and I'm thinking now I may be at that point of considering a rebuild. My dad used it about 8 hard hours clearing a patch for a garden (the other 42 hours were almost strictly easy mowing), and now it is really hard to start. I have to glow it for over a minute, and then let the starter run an uncomfortably long time to get it to stumble to life, if it will even start. It never was easy to start, but never this hard. When it does get going, it seems like it is only running on 2 cylinders and feels low on power. It has a definate MISS in the way it runs. Smoke is about the same, less blue and more grey. No abnormally major oil consumption, or coolant loss. The fuel bowl was almost full of water, and was probably ran a few hours like that. (It was filled from a bulk tank), but I drained it out and replaced the filter and it still runs crappy and hard to start.

    Any thoughts ? Also, if I do have to start thinking about a rebuild, how extensive? Is this a "sleaved" cylinder engine? Lastly, I haven't been able to find a so-called "rebuild kit" for this tractor, like those available on other tractors. Is there a good parts source for these shibura tractors besides ordering all the parts individually from a dealer? Sorry for the long post, and thank you in advance for any replies.

    Bill.
    Last edited by wjsizemore77; 02-28-2009 at 06:36 PM.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Hooked_on_HP's Avatar
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    Default Re: New (to me) NH1725

    I would try adding a doubble dose of Seafoam to the fuel. This will disapate the water and clean the injectors.I sound like you have a bad injector. With the engine running crack each injector line at the injector and the one that you loosen that doesn't effect rpm's is the bad one.You could also remove the injectors and have them tested. They are easy to remove. You probably should test your glow plugs to make shure they are all working.One other thing I would check would be valve lash.This engine does not have sleeves. Do you have a service manual?
    Bill

  9. #9
    Elite Member JC-jetro's Avatar
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    Default Re: New (to me) NH1725

    Quote Originally Posted by wjsizemore77 View Post
    Well I have 50 more hours on the tractor, and I'm thinking now I may be at that point of considering a rebuild. My dad used it about 8 hard hours clearing a patch for a garden (the other 42 hours were almost strictly easy mowing), and now it is really hard to start. I have to glow it for over a minute, and then let the starter run an uncomfortably long time to get it to stumble to life, if it will even start. It never was easy to start, but never this hard. When it does get going, it seems like it is only running on 2 cylinders and feels low on power. It has a definate MISS in the way it runs. Smoke is about the same, less blue and more grey. No abnormally major oil consumption, or coolant loss. The fuel bowl was almost full of water, and was probably ran a few hours like that. (It was filled from a bulk tank), but I drained it out and replaced the filter and it still runs crappy and hard to start.

    Any thoughts ? Also, if I do have to start thinking about a rebuild, how extensive? Is this a "sleaved" cylinder engine? Lastly, I haven't been able to find a so-called "rebuild kit" for this tractor, like those available on other tractors. Is there a good parts source for these shibura tractors besides ordering all the parts individually from a dealer? Sorry for the long post, and thank you in advance for any replies.

    Bill.
    Bill,

    The statement that I earlier made might be true but not enough reason to jump in for an overhaul. I totally agree to what Bill (Hooked on HP) said in his post. You said that it feels the tractor is running on 2 cylinders rather than three. You might might check that as Bill indicated. With diesel engine you need compression, fuel and proper timing. Since you have timing gears rather than chain/belt just can not see you jumped a tooth or timing is off, saying that valve lash adjustment is also important. May be one of your valves either intake or exhaust might be out of adjustment (staying open)during the compression cycle or a burnt valve seat that both could cause compression issue. If you can not compress diesel fume no ignition will happen. You can use the injector openings to do a compression test. From top of my head I don't know what the numbers are but it is not too difficult to find. If nothing else, you can compare and contrast the pressures to gain good info. Lack of compression and you might have bad valve and ring blow by prelude to an overhaul. One more important point is the combustion of fuel. Liquid fluid can not be compressed. Atomized fuel (diesel) can be compressed hence causing ignition. Why don't you get individual injector off and test it either yourself or a shop for spray patten and atomization. If your injector is plugged or really bad patten and no atomization then you can not have combustion. You might do the initial injector testing yourself and later take it to a shop if yo can not repair yourself. May be you can use a injector cleaner liquid in your tank to clean. Have you taken a flash light to take a peek inside of your tank to see rust and nasty build ups, Diesel is sensitive on bad fuel same as gas driven engine, gas driven engine benefit from spark where diesel does not. Do these test and report to see where we are. it'll be a shame that your problems were simple in nature but you ended up overhauling an engine with pricey parts.

    JC,

    PS. at least I know two guys that did 1700 not 1725 overhaul and should prove a good source if you end up doing it.
    Ford 1700, 2wd.
    Kubota MX-4700DT, Gear transmission with LA 884 loader, Q/A and HD bucket.
    60" Woods Rotary Cutter, home made (3-pt boom and a Row Hipper) ,King Kutter( 5 ft Tiller,Middle Buster,Single Row Cultivator,Carry-all, 5 ft blade, 6 ft Landscaping Rake ,30" Dirt Scoop and a 4'x4' Drag Harrow)

  10. #10

    Default Re: New (to me) NH1725

    Thank you for the replies guys. Trust me, the last thing I want to have to do is overhaul the engine. I will try your more simple solutions first. Thanks again.

    Bill.

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