Ford 1715 PTO Clutch Adjusment -- Help

[audoguy]

I have a Ford 1715 with similar issues described elsewhere.... I need a little help:

Where can I find the access to adjust the PTO clutch? Is it on the bell housing? Is it under the front end loader mount? (Perhaps that is why I cannot find it...)

How do I tell if I have a double or single clutch ( live or transmission driven ) PTO?

Thanks

[JC-jetro]

Originally Posted by audoguy

I have a Ford 1715 with similar issues described elsewhere.... I need a little help:

Where can I find the access to adjust the PTO clutch? Is it on the bell housing? Is it under the front end loader mount? (Perhaps that is why I cannot find it...)

How do I tell if I have a double or single clutch ( live or transmission driven ) PTO?

Thanks

On 1700 you have a hand hole on the bell housing with rubber cover, if you have dual clutch plate you can use the hole to adjust the pto clutch, not sure if you have that on 1715. Do you have a picture from the right side of your tractor?
On checking if you have single or double clutch, Turn the tractor on, engage the pto and verify the pto is turning, put the tractor in gear and start moving. After few seconds slowly push the clutch pedal half way and at that point if your tractor comes to full stop but pto shaft is still turning would be indication of live (double clutch) pto. If you further push the clutch all the way the pto rotation should cease.

JC,

[Hooked_on_HP]

I just looked on Messicks and a dual clutch was available. On my 1900 you access it from the left side. I have a westendorf loader and have to remove the left mount to adjust it. It would be wise to get a service manual. They are worth their weight in gold if you are doing any type of maintence.
Bill

[audoguy]

Thanks for the guidance. I have a manual, and it shows how to adjust it, but not where the access is. It has a real nice closeup, but nothing that shows the whole area.

As I suspected it appears to be under the mount for the loader. It will be fun getting that off as I don't think it has ever been off of the machine. Looks like a project for next weekend. I'll post a pick for those who are curios on the 1715 when I get it apart.

Thanks again to both for the guidance on location and the double clutch topic. It will really help.

[audoguy]

Well, it turns out the 1715 only has a single clutch, which explains why the access hole under each loader mount is only the size of a quarter!!! That is the good news. The bad news is that I now suspect it is the overrunning clutch for the PTO. I am probably going to start a new thread asking if anyone has hints on changing that.

Thanks for the help thus far!!!!

[Hooked_on_HP]

What exactly is the problem you are having. The over run clutch is not a clutch but a one way bearing.
Bill

[JC-jetro]

The ORC (Over Running clutch) aka one way clutch or in reality a one way ratchet is in the differential and seems quite difficult to replace looking at the diagrams. I know the pto shaft seal can be replaced from the outside but don't know if PTO shaft can be withdrawn plus ORC from the back. What is the problem you have? and how do you know it s your one way clutch?

JC,

[audoguy]

The problem I am having is that the rototiller stalls under load. Actually any load. It will keep going in loose sand, 1" draft, with the tractor sitting still, but any more than that and it stalls at any engine RPM. If you move the tractor or put it in deeper, it stalls. You then have to disengage the PTO and re-engage it to get it going again. Unfortunately I have more than 3 square feet to till, more than an inch deep, and it is not sand

I assumed I had a dual clutch based on feedback from the group here and other places, but after thinking about how the PTO functioned in the past and then looking through the little access holes at how the clutch worked, I knew it was not a live PTO / Dual clutch.

I then spoke with a local dealer/repair shop who assured me that I do not have a dual clutch and that this is the most likely culprit. He also said he had done a few of these. They were all from rototiller usage. Lastly, he said it is clear why if you look at the replacement "clutch" compared to the old one. The replacement one is far more beefy. He said he has never replaced one twice due to this.

I am pretty bummed because he wants >$1500 in labor to do it which seems pretty high, so I will be doing this one myself

Any pointers appreciated!!!

I agree it appears I will be at least splitting the rear end from the transmission to do this.

[JC-jetro]

Originally Posted by audoguy

The problem I am having is that the rototiller stalls under load.

.

Do you mean that "engine stalls" using a rototiller? If so, does the engine stall using a brush hog?

Can you raise the tiller on the 3 point and with PTO shaft "disengaged" turn the the tiller tine? do you have oil I your tiller gear box? do you hear abnormal noise coming from the gear box.

What I'm puzzled by your statement is that ORC is a one way ratchet (no different that you socket set ratchet) only much heavier. It will grab in one direction and slip on the other. If the ratcheting mechanism is destroyed then the pto layshaft should continue turning without bogging the engine down and may be with partial rotation of final pto shaft. Since The engine is bugging down it make me think that your tiller gear box is beginning to seize.

see if you can address my questions.

JC,

[audoguy]

Do you mean that "engine stalls" using a rototiller? If so, does the engine stall using a brush hog?

No the engine runs great, the PTO ceases to spin (stall) and therefore the tiller ceases to spin. The tractor engine runs and the tractor moves fine in all gears. The tiller is the only PTO driven implement I have.

Can you raise the tiller on the 3 point and with PTO shaft "disengaged" turn the the tiller tine? do you have oil I your tiller gear box? do you hear abnormal noise coming from the gear box.

I can spin the tiller by hand with it on the tractor or off. I spin the tines and the connection spline for the PTO on the tiller spins nicelly. I can even, with the tiller off of the ground, and off of the tractor spin the splines on the PTO connection of the tiller by hand and the tines spin fine. I believe the tiller to work great as it worked fine when connected to my friends JD.

What I'm puzzled by your statement is that ORC is a one way ratchet (no different that you socket set ratchet) only much heavier. It will grab in one direction and slip on the other. If the ratcheting mechanism is destroyed then the pto layshaft should continue turning without bogging the engine down and may be with partial rotation of final pto shaft. Since The engine is bugging down it make me think that your tiller gear box is beginning to seize.

I think my ORC is more like a ratchet with all of the teeth rounded off such that every time you put any force on the ratchet you bust you knuckels on the nearset piece of metal or in this case everytime the engine needs to put torque to the PTO the ratchet slips in the direction it should normally engage.

Does this make sense?

Thanks!!!