Mowing NH 930B 72" Rear Mount Finish Mower

[The Haymaker]

IF mine ever shows up after being ordered 3 weeks ago, I'll let you guys know. Thankfully the dealer has allowed me to keep my trade-in TZ25DA to mow with until the new mower shows up for my bored T2220!

 

[Welshman]

The new CNH belt(approx. 7 years old) measured 121.5 inches. The original belt which came off of the mower(I have trouble getting rid of stuff) measured 121 7/8 inches. Hope this helps. Please let me know how this turns out. Good luck!

Wow! I am surprised. Although I have questioned if a 1" (or so) "shorter" belt alone would have caused the need to move the tensioner link anchor 2 3/8" closer, AND use a 1" longer tensioner link (the geometry of this makes my head hurt). Your measurements lead me to believe that there is a seperate issue with the mower, which I guess could either be pulley size or spindle location. I had asked the dealer to get me the diameter of the drive (gearbox) pulley. They told me that NH "tech didn't have that information", which I find a little hard to believe (they may not have it, but they sure ought to be able to get it).
Rayrla, I really hate to ask another favor, but the next time you have your mower covers off (there really is no hurry on this - I'm currently able to mow), could you please measure the o.d. of that large pulley?
Thanks again for all your help.

 

[Welshman]

IF mine ever shows up after being ordered 3 weeks ago, I'll let you guys know. Thankfully the dealer has allowed me to keep my trade-in TZ25DA to mow with until the new mower shows up for my bored T2220!

So, Haymaker - did your mower ever show up?

 

[The Haymaker]

Not yet. SUPPOSEDLY Monday, but it won't matter. I'm in the truck monday through thursday and can't play!

I told them if it's much longer they'll be giving me the pneumatic wheel kit. I already got the scalp kit from the sales rep after some issues with a dealer in Keene NH not pulling it from the grocery store display it was in, resulting in me not having it for my vacation. Grr.....

 

[Rayrla]

Wow! I am surprised. Although I have questioned if a 1" (or so) "shorter" belt alone would have caused the need to move the tensioner link anchor 2 3/8" closer, AND use a 1" longer tensioner link (the geometry of this makes my head hurt). Your measurements lead me to believe that there is a seperate issue with the mower, which I guess could either be pulley size or spindle location. I had asked the dealer to get me the diameter of the drive (gearbox) pulley. They told me that NH "tech didn't have that information", which I find a little hard to believe (they may not have it, but they sure ought to be able to get it).
Rayrla, I really hate to ask another favor, but the next time you have your mower covers off (there really is no hurry on this - I'm currently able to mow), could you please measure the o.d. of that large pulley?
Thanks again for all your help.

The OD of my drive pulley is 13 inches. I too find it hard to believe that NH tech support does not have access to detailed drawings of this mower. That is totally unacceptable. The dealer should have asked for the drawings before going through the process of relocating anything. First thing is to find out what is out of spec. Oh, well that is how my dumb brain works.

 

[Rayrla]

The OD of my drive pulley is 13 inches. I too find it hard to believe that NH tech support does not have access to detailed drawings of this mower. That is totally unacceptable. The dealer should have asked for the drawings before going through the process of relocating anything. First thing is to find out what is out of spec. Oh, well that is how my dumb brain works.

Had a little more time today, so took the covers off of the mower. Measured the mower deck belt spring adjustor and found it to be 6 3/4 inches(the max that it can be adjusted). The mower was received from the dealer with the deck belt spring adjustor set to this measurement. I would say that the belt is not too tight or loose. Adjusting the tension to 5 9/16 inches is not possible. I am now curious as to what Haymaker's mower deck belt spring adjustor will be set at.

 

[Welshman]

Had a little more time today, so took the covers off of the mower. Measured the mower deck belt spring adjustor and found it to be 6 3/4 inches(the max that it can be adjusted). The mower was received from the dealer with the deck belt spring adjustor set to this measurement. I would say that the belt is not too tight or loose. Adjusting the tension to 5 9/16 inches is not possible. I am now curious as to what Haymaker's mower deck belt spring adjustor will be set at.

Wow again. My pulley is 13" also, so apparently that's not the problem - but your tension measurement surprises me.
Now, are you taking that measurement from "hook to hook", as in where the spring hooks enter the holes in the adjuster link (rod), and the tensioner arm? Do you have an owner's manual that shows this measurement? Mine shows it is supposed to be 5 9/16" (and I've confirmed this spec with NH). When I put on the first replacement belt, with a big lever and a lot of muscle, I could only get the link rod through the anchor just enough to barely get the nut on, and when I measured the spring it was right close to what you're saying at 6 3/4", and like you say, there was no way it was going to get close to 5 9/16". That's when I first called the dealer - I thought they had given me the wrong belt. When they confirmed it was the right belt, I told them that I was concerned about what the increased tension was going to do to the spindle bearings (my belt was definitely too tight). Sure enough, several weeks later (about 35hrs. of mowing), the right side spindle went out (the first time). As I said before, I wish I had measured the tension when I first got the mower, so I would have had something to compare to. What puzzles me is that it seems that you've had a similar experience, but without the problems.
At any rate, thanks again for your time and input - I seem to be finding out more from you than NH!

 

[Rayrla]

Wow again. My pulley is 13" also, so apparently that's not the problem - but your tension measurement surprises me.
Now, are you taking that measurement from "hook to hook", as in where the spring hooks enter the holes in the adjuster link (rod), and the tensioner arm? Do you have an owner's manual that shows this measurement? Mine shows it is supposed to be 5 9/16" (and I've confirmed this spec with NH). When I put on the first replacement belt, with a big lever and a lot of muscle, I could only get the link rod through the anchor just enough to barely get the nut on, and when I measured the spring it was right close to what you're saying at 6 3/4", and like you say, there was no way it was going to get close to 5 9/16". That's when I first called the dealer - I thought they had given me the wrong belt. When they confirmed it was the right belt, I told them that I was concerned about what the increased tension was going to do to the spindle bearings (my belt was definitely too tight). Sure enough, several weeks later (about 35hrs. of mowing), the right side spindle went out (the first time). As I said before, I wish I had measured the tension when I first got the mower, so I would have had something to compare to. What puzzles me is that it seems that you've had a similar experience, but without the problems.
At any rate, thanks again for your time and input - I seem to be finding out more from you than NH!

I have the mower manual and took the measurement as called out in it. I also dont understand why if your measurement is approx 6 3/4 inches that you are having problems. I am not saying that this is the correct solution to the problem, because besides increased wear on spindles and pulleys, it looks to me that the 6 3/4 inch setting reduces the belt contact angle with the drive pulley and in turn causes the belt to slip when it shouldn't.
How many 930B mowers has Ford/NH sold over the years? I bet there are quite a few out there. If you would not have posted your problem, I would not have suspected anything was wrong with the mower. I wish any Ford/NH dealers on this forum would chime in.
I wonder if a belt with OD of 122.9 would indeed fix the problem? I think your dealer needs the detailed drawings of the 930B.

 

[Welshman]

I have the mower manual and took the measurement as called out in it.

I just want to be clear on one thing: does your manual call for the 5 9/16" measurement?
As I've tried to piece this issue together, when I replaced the first belt - probably May of last year, New Holland and the dealer said they were not aware of any short belt problem (I tried to explain to them that somebody had to be first). Sometime between then and when my first spindle failed, they discovered they had a belt problem. It was supposedly certain mfg. date codes, and dealers were apparently notified. I believe my first belt was one of those "ultra short" belts, which put extra strain on the spindle. When my mower went in for warranty, and the dealer ordered in a replacement belt (eventually several), based on the 122.9" spec', they were all short, to varying degrees. Now that I've discussed this with you, I find out that belts from several years ago didn't meet the spec', but may have been long enough - if you didn't try to set the tension as per the manual. I believe if you had attempted to install that "ultra short" belt, you would have had a problem too. I also believe that my continuing problems with the same spindle assembly were a combination of issues, including mis-assembly (I suspect that in at least a couple of cases, the bearing preload was not set properly and/or the housing was worn/damaged, and not detected). Now that the dealer has replaced the complete assembly, so far I haven't had a problem (knock on wood). Interestingly, the new spindle is a significantly different design (and significantly more expensive), than the original. On Messick's website, they show the old spindle assembly as not in stock, but can be ordered. Partspring, and my dealer, tell me that you can't get the old spindle, it supercedes to the new design. Partspring also tells me that only bearings and seals can be ordered for the old spindle - that you can't get the shaft, pulley or other components seperately; if you need any of them, you have to buy the whole new assembly - $246 each. My dealer says you can. I don't know who's right, and hope I don't have to find out anytime soon. To add to the frustration, I can't speak to, or even email with any tech type person at New Holland. When I call or email customer service, they "respond promptly" - by telling me that I must communicate "through the dealer", even after I've explained that I've been doing that, and can't get answers. Consequently, my questions, and NH's answers have to get fitered both ways. My dealer has been good in the sense that they've been handling my problems under warranty, and I can see that they've been about as frustrated as I have been. I ask NH if there are any service bulletins on this problem - they tell me the dealer would have that information. I ask the dealer; they say they don't know of any. There was a "tech guy" from NH in to look at my mower when it was at the dealer the last time. They asked him why the belt didn't fit properly. He said he hadn't heard of anyone else having the problem, and didn't know (OH WELL!). I ask if there is a service bulletin on the new spindle, in case I need to rebuild it and need at least the new torque spec's. Nobody knows of any.
I've called two other somewhat local dealers and asked them and they "haven't heard about any belt problem".
In answer to your last question - hanging on my shop wall is an actual 122.9" new Gates belt that I ordered. When the short belt that's on my mower goes (hopefully not soon), or when my curiosity overcomes my lack of ambition for more mower work, we'll both find out. If it does, I'll probably have to cut off the new anchor, and dig up my stock link.
Sorry to vent. As I've said, right now everything is working fine, but it still bugs me.

 

[Rayrla]

I just want to be clear on one thing: does your manual call for the 5 9/16" measurement?
As I've tried to piece this issue together, when I replaced the first belt - probably May of last year, New Holland and the dealer said they were not aware of any short belt problem (I tried to explain to them that somebody had to be first). Sometime between then and when my first spindle failed, they discovered they had a belt problem. It was supposedly certain mfg. date codes, and dealers were apparently notified. I believe my first belt was one of those "ultra short" belts, which put extra strain on the spindle. When my mower went in for warranty, and the dealer ordered in a replacement belt (eventually several), based on the 122.9" spec', they were all short, to varying degrees. Now that I've discussed this with you, I find out that belts from several years ago didn't meet the spec', but may have been long enough - if you didn't try to set the tension as per the manual. I believe if you had attempted to install that "ultra short" belt, you would have had a problem too. I also believe that my continuing problems with the same spindle assembly were a combination of issues, including mis-assembly (I suspect that in at least a couple of cases, the bearing preload was not set properly and/or the housing was worn/damaged, and not detected). Now that the dealer has replaced the complete assembly, so far I haven't had a problem (knock on wood). Interestingly, the new spindle is a significantly different design (and significantly more expensive), than the original. On Messick's website, they show the old spindle assembly as not in stock, but can be ordered. Partspring, and my dealer, tell me that you can't get the old spindle, it supercedes to the new design. Partspring also tells me that only bearings and seals can be ordered for the old spindle - that you can't get the shaft, pulley or other components seperately; if you need any of them, you have to buy the whole new assembly - $246 each. My dealer says you can. I don't know who's right, and hope I don't have to find out anytime soon. To add to the frustration, I can't speak to, or even email with any tech type person at New Holland. When I call or email customer service, they "respond promptly" - by telling me that I must communicate "through the dealer", even after I've explained that I've been doing that, and can't get answers. Consequently, my questions, and NH's answers have to get fitered both ways. My dealer has been good in the sense that they've been handling my problems under warranty, and I can see that they've been about as frustrated as I have been. I ask NH if there are any service bulletins on this problem - they tell me the dealer would have that information. I ask the dealer; they say they don't know of any. There was a "tech guy" from NH in to look at my mower when it was at the dealer the last time. They asked him why the belt didn't fit properly. He said he hadn't heard of anyone else having the problem, and didn't know (OH WELL!). I ask if there is a service bulletin on the new spindle, in case I need to rebuild it and need at least the new torque spec's. Nobody knows of any.
I've called two other somewhat local dealers and asked them and they "haven't heard about any belt problem".
In answer to your last question - hanging on my shop wall is an actual 122.9" new Gates belt that I ordered. When the short belt that's on my mower goes (hopefully not soon), or when my curiosity overcomes my lack of ambition for more mower work, we'll both find out. If it does, I'll probably have to cut off the new anchor, and dig up my stock link.
Sorry to vent. As I've said, right now everything is working fine, but it still bugs me.

Yes, my manual calls for the 5 9/16 measurement. I am equally disappointed with your inability to communicate directly with NH. With the amount of money that is spent on the tractor and associated accessories, NH should be contacting you to be sure that your problem gets resolved ASAP. Glad I could help. Where did you get the 122.9 belt?