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  1. #1
    Bronze Member
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    Aug 2011
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    North Alabama
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    Ford 4000

    Default Independent PTO Not so Independent...

    1968 Ford 4000 3cyl Gas

    When I start her up the PTO is turning regardless of what position I have the lever. If I have the PTO disengaged and don't have the bush hog hooked up the PTO seems to turn the same speed as when the PTO is engaged. If I hook up the bush hog the PTO barely turns the blades until I engage the lever. When I engage the PTO everything is smooth and the bush hog runs great. I know the independent PTO works off a set of clutches/brake that stops the PTO from turning when not engaged. My question is, will it hurt anything further to just leave it be? How hard is the replacement of those clutches/brakes?

  2. #2
    Super Member RickB's Avatar
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    Eastern NY
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    Case 885, Ford 4000

    Default Re: Independent PTO Not so Independent...

    8X2 or Select-O-Speed transmission?
    We have too much gun control.
    What we need is more idiot control.

  3. #3
    Bronze Member
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    Ford 4000

    Default Re: Independent PTO Not so Independent...

    I always forget to put that in my posts. It is the 8X2 transmission.

  4. #4
    Epic Contributor Soundguy's Avatar
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    ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC

    Default Re: Independent PTO Not so Independent...

    if the pto will spin a mower over when not engaged.. that's a lil more than the common worn brake and oil coupling.. almost sounds like warped discs in the clutchpack.

    I'm not really a 3 cyl guy.. so see what rickb has to say.

    soundguy

  5. #5
    Super Member RickB's Avatar
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    Eastern NY
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    Case 885, Ford 4000

    Default Re: Independent PTO Not so Independent...

    Probably just a worn brake pawl if it spins the RC under no load. Now if it wanted to cut grass when the lever is in the 'off' position, that's different.
    We have too much gun control.
    What we need is more idiot control.

  6. #6
    Super Member
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    Feb 2006
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    8,493
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    VA
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    JD2010, Kubota3450,2550, Mahindra 7520 w FEL w Skid Steer QC w/Tilt Tatch, & BH, BX1500

    Default Re: Independent PTO Not so Independent...

    This sounds like a live pto with a clutch rather than an independent pto.
    larry
    This side of 40
    JD2010, Kubota L3450/FEL w SK QC, L2550 w FEL
    Mahindra 7520 [Pinky] /FEL w Skid Steer QC/w Tilt Tatch & BH, BX1500 [Mighty Mouse]
    IH37 Baler, CCM165 Drum Mower, JD Rake
    JD 127 bushog, Flail, SK Tilt Tatch , KK tiller, Rhino rear blade, Post driver, post auger, chipper, pallet fork, Grapple/Loader Buddy, Homemade Splitter/DC Welder

  7. #7
    Super Member RickB's Avatar
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    Case 885, Ford 4000

    Default Re: Independent PTO Not so Independent...

    Quote Originally Posted by SPYDERLK View Post
    This sounds like a live pto with a clutch rather than an independent pto.
    larry
    Not on a 1968 Ford 4000. Fully independent multiple disc wet clutch, hydraulic control. SOS and 8X2 have different clutchpacks and the SOS version has no brake.
    We have too much gun control.
    What we need is more idiot control.

  8. #8
    Super Member
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    JD2010, Kubota3450,2550, Mahindra 7520 w FEL w Skid Steer QC w/Tilt Tatch, & BH, BX1500

    Default Re: Independent PTO Not so Independent...

    Quote Originally Posted by RickB View Post
    Not on a 1968 Ford 4000. Fully independent multiple disc wet clutch, hydraulic control. SOS and 8X2 have different clutchpacks and the SOS version has no brake.
    Then it is out of gear when disengaged as is usual w/independent? The description seemed to indicate that there was real torque output beyond oil drag when the pto was disengaged. Im not sure how that fits. My ptos can be restrained with fingertips when disengaged if they even turn at all.
    larry
    This side of 40
    JD2010, Kubota L3450/FEL w SK QC, L2550 w FEL
    Mahindra 7520 [Pinky] /FEL w Skid Steer QC/w Tilt Tatch & BH, BX1500 [Mighty Mouse]
    IH37 Baler, CCM165 Drum Mower, JD Rake
    JD 127 bushog, Flail, SK Tilt Tatch , KK tiller, Rhino rear blade, Post driver, post auger, chipper, pallet fork, Grapple/Loader Buddy, Homemade Splitter/DC Welder

  9. #9
    Super Member RickB's Avatar
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    Case 885, Ford 4000

    Default Re: Independent PTO Not so Independent...

    Quote Originally Posted by SPYDERLK View Post
    Then it is out of gear when disengaged as is usual w/independent? The description seemed to indicate that there was real torque output beyond oil drag when the pto was disengaged. Im not sure how that fits. My ptos can be restrained with fingertips when disengaged if they even turn at all.
    larry
    Larry,
    The tractor has independent PTO. I'm pretty certain that you and I both know what that means.
    A 4000 with a failed PTO brake pawl would probably cause you some harm if you grabbed the shaft and tried to stop it.

    TO the OP:
    A rear split is required in order to replace the brake pawl. Further damage to the mechanical parts of the tractor is unlikely if you don't fix it. But it is a safety hazard.
    We have too much gun control.
    What we need is more idiot control.

  10. #10
    Super Member
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    Feb 2006
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    VA
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    JD2010, Kubota3450,2550, Mahindra 7520 w FEL w Skid Steer QC w/Tilt Tatch, & BH, BX1500

    Default Re: Independent PTO Not so Independent...

    I take it youre saying that a pto having gears meshed from the engine through the trans to the output stub is independent if there is an independent clutch somewhere in the string. All the independents I have do not have gears meshed and require operating the pto clutch to mesh them and then ultimately to power the stub. My thot is that while the 1st may act independent enuf to be called that, it is actually a live pto with an internal clutch that is disengaged. Doesnt that analogy fit? ... I think that design is inherently dangerous when the engine is running.
    larry
    This side of 40
    JD2010, Kubota L3450/FEL w SK QC, L2550 w FEL
    Mahindra 7520 [Pinky] /FEL w Skid Steer QC/w Tilt Tatch & BH, BX1500 [Mighty Mouse]
    IH37 Baler, CCM165 Drum Mower, JD Rake
    JD 127 bushog, Flail, SK Tilt Tatch , KK tiller, Rhino rear blade, Post driver, post auger, chipper, pallet fork, Grapple/Loader Buddy, Homemade Splitter/DC Welder

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