Ford 1700 clutch adjustment

[284 International]

I just picked up a Ford 1700 that needed a starter. While I waited, I wanted to start it and move it around, so I tried pull starting it. However, the clutch is slipping. The clutch disk has what appears to be ample material left:

The ruler has a space of about 2 mm from the edge to where the measurements start. I have seen in this thread that the thickness of the material of a new clutch is supposed to be 5/16", right about where this one is.

I have adjusted the pedal, and have tried it with the linkage entirely disconnected, so it isn't hanging on anything external, it just slips.

I don't see any sign of oil seepage into the case.

What should/could I try to avoid splitting this thing? Is there a shortcut I'm ignorant about to fixing a slipping clutch? Thanks in advance.

 

[rayikeo2]

Don't pull start a 1700. The gear ratio is so low you will cause severe damage to it.

 

[rayikeo2]

Clutch free travel = 3/4" to 1 1/16". (20 mm to 30mm) Adjust by changing linkage. Disconnect clevis at bellcrank and shotrten or lengthen rod. If yours is a duel clutch procedure is different.

 

[JC-jetro]

The measurement you have done has nothing to do with clutch adjustment. it merely tell you how much clutch plate is left in comparison to oem. I have stated that in the thread you found. If you have someone push the clutch pedal in while your observing thru the hole (clutch housing) you see a small gap opening between pressure plate and clutch disk or flywheel and clutch disk. the only useful information there is to get a feel if he fingers on the pressure plate are touched by throw out bearing. Ray has the right info on how far part the release bearing should be from the pressure plate fingers. I just looked at your picture and noticed the gap I was mentioning between pressure plate and the disk. it appears you have ample disk material. I think your the throwout bearing is constantly riding the fingers. If you loosen the adjustment it should release the bearing. Have someone adjust the clutch travel while your observing the gap. I bet ya the gap slowly dispersers and clutch starts sticking.

JC,

 

[284 International]

Thanks for the tips.

I had tried the suggested adjustments at the clutch pedal already. In fact, even with the clutch pedal entirely disconnected it does the same thing. That is, I can't get any free travel in clutch at all.

If I block the clutch pedal down, I can get a clear gap between the pressure plate, clutch disk, and flywheel. It seems like there is some gap even with the pedal fully out. (The pedal was out when this photo was taken.)

What other adjustment procedures are there for a dual clutch? I don't know if this has one or not; is there a way to tell by serial number or external indicators? It has a one-way clutch in the PTO, so I can't use that as an indicator one way or another.

I'm not trying to be difficult or a know-it-all: Why would pull starting this tractor damage it? How could that happen because of low gears? I'm not disagreeing, I just don't understand what harm could come from running the engine through the tires, rather than the tires through the engine. Wouldn't the torque on components be the same, albeit reversed?

Thanks again. I'm hoping to get this thing operational soon.

 

[chopped]

I had a 1700 good tractor ,I dont belive it has a double clutch..
"If I block the clutch pedal down, I can get a clear gap between the pressure plate, clutch disk, and flywheel. It seems like there is some gap even with the pedal fully out"
sunds like the pressure plate isnt fully returning to squeese the disc..
Could there be some rust?

 

[JC-jetro]

Thanks for the tips.

I had tried the suggested adjustments at the clutch pedal already. In fact, even with the clutch pedal entirely disconnected it does the same thing. That is, I can't get any free travel in clutch at all.

If I block the clutch pedal down, I can get a clear gap between the pressure plate, clutch disk, and flywheel. It seems like there is some gap even with the pedal fully out. (The pedal was out when this photo was taken.)

What other adjustment procedures are there for a dual clutch? I don't know if this has one or not; is there a way to tell by serial number or external indicators? It has a one-way clutch in the PTO, so I can't use that as an indicator one way or another.

I'm not trying to be difficult or a know-it-all: Why would pull starting this tractor damage it? How could that happen because of low gears? I'm not disagreeing, I just don't understand what harm could come from running the engine through the tires, rather than the tires through the engine. Wouldn't the torque on components be the same, albeit reversed?

Thanks again. I'm hoping to get this thing operational soon.

Picture that you show there is for sure and without a doubt a single clutch jobby. Tractor data indicate live pto option (double clutch) but yet to see anyone owning one of them. can you push the or pull the tractor say in a higher gear (range 3, spee3) and the clutch out ? I think pressure plate might have rust on it that keeps good contact between pressure plate and the disk. the spring might be rusted.I don't believe you hurt the transmission by putting in 4th range and 3rd gear. why don't you push the tractor somewhere safe, raise the rear axle , raise the wheels about 2" off the ground supported on two jacks stand and then try to start it. make sure glow it enough so ignition will be easier. it is a pain to do it but by taking the steering column you can inspect the throw out bearing, clutch disks and pressure plate.

JC,

 

[284 International]

In high range and high gear (4th/3rd) the clutch still slips. Every so often the engine will turn a bit, but the clutch is slipping. There may be rust, or course, and there are trace bits visible in the picture, but the insides don't look, feel, or smell musty or corroded, if that makes sense. It's certainly possible something is in between the friction plate and one of the surfaces though. Will rust make a clutch slip?

why don't you push the tractor somewhere safe, raise the rear axle , raise the wheels about 2" off the ground supported on two jacks stand and then try to start it.

Sorry for not getting it, but I don't understand what this is testing, and I won't be able to start it this way through any method I know.

... by taking the steering column you can inspect the throw out bearing, clutch disks and pressure plate.

Is there another access or service port on top of the transmission casing, or is the spot underneath the steering column?

The symptom I'm most concerned with is the inability to get any free play on the clutch pedal, even at maximum slack. It "seems" like the clutch is partially disengaged internally somehow, although this is speculation on my part.

Thank you all for the input, it's much appreciated.

 

[JC-jetro]

In high range and high gear (4th/3rd) the clutch still slips. Every so often the engine will turn a bit, but the clutch is slipping. There may be rust, or course, and there are trace bits visible in the picture, but the insides don't look, feel, or smell musty or corroded, if that makes sense. It's certainly possible something is in between the friction plate and one of the surfaces though. Will rust make a clutch slip?



Sorry for not getting it, but I don't understand what this is testing, and I won't be able to start it this way through any method I know.




Is there another access or service port on top of the transmission casing, or is the spot underneath the steering column?

The symptom I'm most concerned with is the inability to get any free play on the clutch pedal, even at maximum slack. It "seems" like the clutch is partially disengaged internally somehow, although this is speculation on my part.

Thank you all for the input, it's much appreciated.

Okay, my bad !! I thought your disk did not disengage to start and that's why I suggested to raise the rear axle and suggested to try to start with the rear wheel slightly in the air so starter would turn the engine and transmission in all. If your clutch occasionally slips even with clutch pedal totally out then it must be with the pressure plate not applying enough spring action. I'll post two pics courtesy of Russel where he did split the tractor. He posted the pic of the steering column removed for my benefit and curiosity.

pressure plate assembly , clutch disk and flywheel.



Pics of the release bearing and relationship of release bearing to fingers of the pressure plate. unfortunately there is no easy way to do this inspection and that is to take the steering column off. I have not done this work before myself but I might consider this to avoid splitting the tractor. it is doable and much less work than tractor split.I know you said that the clutch housing looks clean. I just wonderd if you get a bit of hyd oil somehow getting on the friction plate thru the input shaft and causes it to slip till it cooks off dry till next occurrence.






JC,

 

[284 International]

Thank you for the pictures. Sorry for the misunderstanding, I should have been more clear.

I don't have a starter on the tractor, and have never seen it run before. I bought it knowing it needed a starter, but didn't know about the clutch situation (since it wouldn't run.) I tried to pull-start it, but the clutch slipped. I was unable to start it by applying power through the PTO because of the overrunning clutch (and would have had the same issues with the clutch slippage, I just thought it would be safer).

So, my problem, aside from not having a starter, is that the clutch slips. It could have hydraulic fluid or engine oil inside the housing. There could be something else wrong; I'm leaning toward the latter option, at least as a portion of the trouble, because I can't get any free play in the pedal.

However, I can't figure out what could happen to allow slippage if the friction plate is of full thickness, but there is clutch pressure. Oil of some sort would explain that, but there's no dripping or leak showing on the bottom of the case. Perhaps I'll have to pull the steering column and see.

I'm willing to split the machine if I have to, but I don't know how to isolate my troubles beforehand. I don't want to tear it apart and have everything up to specification!

Thank you for the ongoing help.