Engine miss, loss of power, close to loss of sanity

[droy]

Going to list everything I did, as problem seems to be because of something I did.
2005 TC33DA 620 hrs mostly used with rotary cutter.
Key switch replaced, due to it not returning to "on" position after starting tractor.
While replacing the switch, I noticed tractor was due a service. After replacing switch, cranked engine to verify new switch working, then drained/replaced engine oil, & filter; as I was replacing fuel filter, noticed it was really bad, rust, water in filter and bowl approx 3/8 up from bottom of bowl. After that, I cranked tractor, as it ran, sputtered, then died, I realized I had not bled the air; mentally berating myself, I bled the air and started the tractor. It ran, but very sluggish, slow to rev, no power, wanting to die just moving it around the yard. Not a miss, like a dead cylinder, but like running out of fuel.
I have since:
Drained fuel tank, checked, rechecked fuel filter ***'y, disassembled from pump back to tank, blowing compressed air through the system. Appears to have no blockage, but couple of times, shortly after cranking, it seemed to want to die, like starving for fuel. Took gallon jug of fuel fastened it overhead on loader bracket and ran hose from it to inlet fitting under bleeder screw on pump, no change. Checked air filter ***'y, as I had also hosed engine off while I had side panels off during key switch replacement. I also pulled the panels off again, thinking pinched fuel hose, no dice.

After warmup, checking cylinders with heat gun, #1 being closest to radiator, was 205*f; #2 = 235*f; #3 = 174*f. Exhaust gas leaves manifold between #2 and #3, which would explain #2 being hottest, but seems to be a big difference between #1 and #3. Could I possibly have a lazy injector on #3?
Wife has been on tractor lately, due to me being busy at job; don't really know if performance had fell off prior to me working on it. Wife did move tractor after service/loss of power, and stated that it hadn't run that bad with her.
If someone has any other ideas, or suggestions, would sure like to hear.
Thanks in advance!

 

[bcp]

Wife did move tractor after service/loss of power, and stated that it hadn't run that bad with her.

Buy yourself a new tractor and give this one to her.

...seems to be a big difference between #1 and #3.

Switch 1 and 3 injectors and see what happens.

Bruce

 

[SSdoxie]

Is there a supply/lift pump on there? If so this could have some of the same garbage in it you found in the filter, thus not pumping to supply any extra pressure that is required when going to full throttle or governor kicking into full fuel for power recovery.

 

[droy]

Buy yourself a new tractor and give this one to her.

You have no idea how close to home you hit! I signed the papers today on a new one, but unfortunately, have to trade off my Boomer. Would loved to have kept it, and let her take the new tractor. SWMBO handed me an "etched in stone statement" that she was not going to cut grass unless she had AC. Being gone most of the time, I didn't have a lot of options.


Switch 1 and 3 injectors and see what happens. Bruce(/Quote)

Was considering that, but was hoping that someone might know if the temp deferential WAS abnormal; the way the manifold is made, hard to get a truly consistent reading.

Is there a supply/lift pump on there? If so this could have some of the same garbage in it you found in the filter, thus not pumping to supply any extra pressure that is required when going to full throttle or governor kicking into full fuel for power recovery.

I think the injector pump is the only pump and is gravity fed; although it MAY be a combination supply/injection.

 

[DieselMonk]

Ever tried to put some injector cleaner through her and see what happens? But I guess it doesn't matter now, since you signed up for a new one! What did you get?

 

[henny]

Check the petcock. Mine went bad. I think I have read on TBN about some going bad also.

 

[Redneck in training]

Some injector pumps are not self priming. In other words if there is air in them they will not develop pressure. Make sure there is fuel up to the injection pump. Crack the injector lines at the injectors and crank the engine until you fill the injector lines. Tighten them and start the engine. Alternatively crack only the line of the cold cylinder and start the engine when fuel comes out tighten it and see what happens.

 

[jinman]

I think there's a good chance that some of that filter crud made it's way thru your injector pump and may be blocking fuel to one cylinder. I'd do the bleed routine at each injector rather than the air bleed at the pump. If you have one injector not getting fuel when you crack open the feed line, then that indicates the injector pump may be plugged. You might just have a really bad air-lock and need to bleed at the injectors, but most New Hollands are supposed to do this automatically. I'd try bleeding before moving the injectors around.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Going to list everything I did, as problem seems to be because of something I did.
2005 TC33DA 620 hrs mostly used with rotary cutter.
Key switch replaced, due to it not returning to "on" position after starting tractor.
While replacing the switch, I noticed tractor was due a service. After replacing switch, cranked engine to verify new switch working, then drained/replaced engine oil, & filter; as I was replacing fuel filter, noticed it was really bad, rust, water in filter and bowl approx 3/8 up from bottom of bowl. After that, I cranked tractor, as it ran, sputtered, then died, I realized I had not bled the air; mentally berating myself, I bled the air and started the tractor. It ran, but very sluggish, slow to rev, no power, wanting to die just moving it around the yard. Not a miss, like a dead cylinder, but like running out of fuel.
I have since:
Drained fuel tank, checked, rechecked fuel filter ***'y, disassembled from pump back to tank, blowing compressed air through the system. Appears to have no blockage, but couple of times, shortly after cranking, it seemed to want to die, like starving for fuel. Took gallon jug of fuel fastened it overhead on loader bracket and ran hose from it to inlet fitting under bleeder screw on pump, no change. Checked air filter ***'y, as I had also hosed engine off while I had side panels off during key switch replacement. I also pulled the panels off again, thinking pinched fuel hose, no dice.

After warmup, checking cylinders with heat gun, #1 being closest to radiator, was 205*f; #2 = 235*f; #3 = 174*f. Exhaust gas leaves manifold between #2 and #3, which would explain #2 being hottest, but seems to be a big difference between #1 and #3. Could I possibly have a lazy injector on #3?
Wife has been on tractor lately, due to me being busy at job; don't really know if performance had fell off prior to me working on it. Wife did move tractor after service/loss of power, and stated that it hadn't run that bad with her.
If someone has any other ideas, or suggestions, would sure like to hear.
Thanks in advance!

With the low temperature on #3, I'd suspect a lack of fuel or lack of compression (leaking valve, leaking head gasket, etc). With the tractor being a 2005 and with it most likely having low hours on it, I'd say the odds were that it's a fuel related problem caused by a carboned up or dirty injector or a malfunctioning injector on #3.

 

[droy]

Ever tried to put some injector cleaner through her and see what happens? But I guess it doesn't matter now, since you signed up for a new one! What did you get?

I use Shaeffers, really like it in my eighteen wheeler, one quart is supposed to treat 500 gallons, and I figure I have close to that added in the tractors tank. Well I can't hardly trade it, running like that.......Gosh I may have to keep it!!!!!. lol.
My wife got a Kubota 4740, cab, fel, also traded my 5' rotary cutter and BB, for 6' tools. I have nothing at all against the orange tractors, I just really enjoyed using my TC33DA, pretty much trouble free; kinda got attached to it. IIRC, the majority of problems I had with it were caused by the operator.

Check the petcock. Mine went bad. I think I have read on TBN about some going bad also.

Henny, when you say yours went bad, you mean it was sucking air thru the bleeder?

Some injector pumps are not self priming. In other words if there is air in them they will not develop pressure. Make sure there is fuel up to the injection pump. Crack the injector lines at the injectors and crank the engine until you fill the injector lines. Tighten them and start the engine. Alternatively crack only the line of the cold cylinder and start the engine when fuel comes out tighten it and see what happens.

I did have fuel up to the petcock, more than one attempt, and also hung a gallon jug on the loader cross brace above my head, got fuel siphoning out of jug, thru a hose, which I then attached to the hose barb on the pump; opened the petcock to bleed air, then started tractor- no change.

I think there's a good chance that some of that filter crud made it's way thru your injector pump and may be blocking fuel to one cylinder. I'd do the bleed routine at each injector rather than the air bleed at the pump. If you have one injector not getting fuel when you crack open the feed line, then that indicates the injector pump may be plugged. You might just have a really bad air-lock and need to bleed at the injectors, but most New Hollands are supposed to do this automatically. I'd try bleeding before moving the injectors around.

I attempted to bleed the injector lines, but when I tried to loosen the two outer ones, the lines wanted to twist with the movement of the nut. I will try to free them with penetrating oil, and attempt it again. I figured if the tractor would run, then the air would eventually pass through the injectors; I let it run at fast idle for about five minutes, but no change. The way the filter assembly is set up, I would think that it would be difficult for trash to make it to the pump- even as trashy as my filter & bowl was. If I am correct, the unfiltered fuel falls inside the center of the filter, passes thru the filter material, then travels up into the hose going to the pump. Not impossible to get to the pump, just hard, IMHO.

With the low temperature on #3, I'd suspect a lack of fuel or lack of compression (leaking valve, leaking head gasket, etc). With the tractor being a 2005 and with it most likely having low hours on it, I'd say the odds were that it's a fuel related problem caused by a carboned up or dirty injector or a malfunctioning injector on #3.

Wondering if I do have to pull the injectors, should I try cleaning the suspect one, with a carb and choke cleaner, or just replace it. Ditto for the pump, attempt to clean it, or just bring it to a shop?

Many thanks to all who responded, and apology for not answering sooner, I am an Owner / Operator, usually gone for a few days, then in for a couple, (if I'm lucky). Will hopefully post good news when I get to the cause of this.