OPTIMA Batteries
- Thread starter Ramstack
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pedalstomper78
Gold Member
Before you toss a battery in do the relay. Best $20 you'll ever spend on the tractor. If you need help with it, i can set you up with a relay, wire it, send it to you letting you know where to put the wires. Its quite simple.
MDA1775
New member
Wow, there's a lot of info on this thread. I'm going to throw a little bit more on it. Both Optima and Enersys (Odyssey) got their patents from the Gates rubber company. Optima bought the spiral wound patent and Enersys bought the flat plate patent. There is no particular difference in the way they work since they are both AGM batteries. That said in the same footprint the Odyssey will have more CCA's and or reserve capacity since the gaps between the spiral cells are not present.
As for long lasting, now a days the nod has to go to the Odyssey because since Optima moved their manufacturing to Mexico their batteries don't seem to be quite as robust and they don't recover as well from deep discharge and other abuse.
As has been stated ALL AGM batteries are voltage sensitive but only when you go above 15V. That's because AGM's use a recombinant technology and going much over 15V will make them out gas since they just can't do it fast enough. Up to 15 they will recharge much faster than similarly sized flooded cell batteries since they can accept current (Amps) much more efficiently because of their much lower internal resistance.
Regarding maintenance systems and desulphators the first thing you have to understand is that any charger and or alternator is actually "desulphating" your battery since charging by definition is breaking up PbSo4 crystals. They are limited in that they can only break up small relatively new crystals and that as the battery ages, sits in a discharged state etc the crystals enlarge and regular chargers and alternators cannot break up the larger crystals. That is where the maintenance systems with a true desulphating capability come into play. The ones often referred to as "Tenders" are maintenance systems not desulphating systems. You can get systems that do both and will generally be way ahead by doing so since you can often give years more life to batteries when you use a true desulphator.
Now for the rest of the story as I have posted before I work for PulseTech products who does make systems that do both, I have also been teaching battery maintenance to the US Military for over 14 yrs and as such I am extremely familiar with both the Optima and Enersys products. In fact using our equipment in Kuwait in the last 18 mo of operation the battery shop there recovered over 7 million dollars worth of batteries that had been removed from military equipment and were going to disposal. That's a lot of batteries. This thread is so long I may posted in it before but as it grew it started to become battery type specific and I have a lot experience with both companies products. You can got to Battery Chargers and Battery Desulfators by Pulsetech Products and learn more or PM me. Mark
As for long lasting, now a days the nod has to go to the Odyssey because since Optima moved their manufacturing to Mexico their batteries don't seem to be quite as robust and they don't recover as well from deep discharge and other abuse.
As has been stated ALL AGM batteries are voltage sensitive but only when you go above 15V. That's because AGM's use a recombinant technology and going much over 15V will make them out gas since they just can't do it fast enough. Up to 15 they will recharge much faster than similarly sized flooded cell batteries since they can accept current (Amps) much more efficiently because of their much lower internal resistance.
Regarding maintenance systems and desulphators the first thing you have to understand is that any charger and or alternator is actually "desulphating" your battery since charging by definition is breaking up PbSo4 crystals. They are limited in that they can only break up small relatively new crystals and that as the battery ages, sits in a discharged state etc the crystals enlarge and regular chargers and alternators cannot break up the larger crystals. That is where the maintenance systems with a true desulphating capability come into play. The ones often referred to as "Tenders" are maintenance systems not desulphating systems. You can get systems that do both and will generally be way ahead by doing so since you can often give years more life to batteries when you use a true desulphator.
Now for the rest of the story as I have posted before I work for PulseTech products who does make systems that do both, I have also been teaching battery maintenance to the US Military for over 14 yrs and as such I am extremely familiar with both the Optima and Enersys products. In fact using our equipment in Kuwait in the last 18 mo of operation the battery shop there recovered over 7 million dollars worth of batteries that had been removed from military equipment and were going to disposal. That's a lot of batteries. This thread is so long I may posted in it before but as it grew it started to become battery type specific and I have a lot experience with both companies products. You can got to Battery Chargers and Battery Desulfators by Pulsetech Products and learn more or PM me. Mark
Mickey_Fx
Veteran Member
MDA, nice hearing from someone with knowledge that goes beyond individuals personal experience. I was working with Gates Energy Products in the mid-80's for an emergency medical product. Few yrs after we adopted the starved electrolyte tech, others in the same industry abandoned Ni-Cads and went with this tech.
Seeing you mention desulfation I was wondering what tech your company was using. Looking at the company name gave a strong hint. So many of the consumer battery chargers with supposed desulfation capabilities just bump up the voltage for short periods of time to stir up the electrolyte and hopefully get some of the newer crystals to break up. The better and proven tech is a relatively high voltage pulse. See that is the approach you company has taken.
Thanks for jumping in here.
Seeing you mention desulfation I was wondering what tech your company was using. Looking at the company name gave a strong hint. So many of the consumer battery chargers with supposed desulfation capabilities just bump up the voltage for short periods of time to stir up the electrolyte and hopefully get some of the newer crystals to break up. The better and proven tech is a relatively high voltage pulse. See that is the approach you company has taken.
Thanks for jumping in here.
MDA1775
New member
Mickey, my pleasure . Yes, we use pulse technology to break up the lead sulfate crystals. Our pulse is patented and most of the companies that claim pulsing reference our pulses and try to replicate it without violating the patents. A big cat and mouse game I don't have to deal with. As you point out the voltage spikes are a extremely high with very fast rise times and very little current. Lab tests at Ohio State and Warren MI show we can triple the number of cycles you get out of a battery. In the real world it is often more than that. It is frustrating and amusing at times trying to teach people that the failure rates they have do not need to occur but many assume it to be a fixed cost of doing business so they accept it. Here is a link that you can look at has some good pictures of the difference of cycling with and without our pulsing. Pulsetech - Pulsetech
Regards,
Mark
Regards,
Mark
stevem5215
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Ok, got one from Amazon. I'm hoping this will solve my ongoing problem with the batteries only lasting me two years in the once a month used FarmPro. I bought the Extreme single 2.5amp model.
Will put it on the tractor battery this coming deer hunting weekend and see how it goes !
Steve
Will put it on the tractor battery this coming deer hunting weekend and see how it goes !
Steve
sixdogs
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I use Optima in my JD 790 that has the battery up front. The original factory battery leaked and made a rust mess of things for me. Sure, a sealed battery would or might have been equally good but the Optima for me has been perfect. Also, I charge all my batteries just before winter and am convinced it adds to life expectancy. I've got a 7 year old Kubota factory battery in my B7800.
ultrarunner
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Have only one optima and it is 6 volt for the T speedster... no generator so it's battery or mag.
It's a little over 5 years old and so far so good...
No Pulsetech for Optima 6 volts?
It's a little over 5 years old and so far so good...
No Pulsetech for Optima 6 volts?
jinman
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Mark, can you link us to the independent tests at Ohio State and Warren, MI? Your case studies seem to be mostly anecdotal descriptions of users and even have unsubstantiated facts. For example, this quote, "In summary we now pay more for our batteries, but they last longer. How much longer? We don’t know yet, but already we can see the cost savings in money spent on replacement batteries." Seriously! That is an incredibly silly statement. This person says something lasts longer and then turns right around and says he has no idea or doesn't know. Talk about a faith-only based statement.
Most of us don't have "battery shops" since our batteries remain in our vehicles. Your most economical maintainer is $100 and runs off house current. That means to use it, we have to have an outlet. Sure, you make solar powered models that are even more expensive than the basic model. I'm not saying your technology doesn't work, but a battery that lasts three times as long because I spent three times as much money just doesn't make sense. If I have a fleet of vehicles and an organized maintenance program, your system might have economic benefits. I just fail to see how it is really beneficial for the average user who has one or two batteries to maintain.
Perhaps, if you need a battery maintainer the Pulsetech makes sense for the average user. For myself, I paid less than $120 for my Optima red top over 8 years ago. It still works great. I don't have to do anything special to it and it starts my tractor every time I go to use it. I don't have to fool with hookup to a maintainer or even have to park the tractor close to the outlet. Certainly, I don't mean to say that your maintainer is not good, but so far my $60 battery charger has been right there every time I've needed it for over 20 years. That's also hard to beat.
MDA1775
New member
Jim,
If you're getting 8 yrs out of your battery more power to you (pun intended). What you are experiencing is great but not the norm for batteries and unfortunately the cost of lead has driven prices up and in some cases quality down so you might not be as fortunate on your next battery. You being just up the road in Wise county makes your battery life even more impressive since I'm all too familiar with the heat we've have the past few years.
Having said that why is having equipment start when you want it to important? As a hobbyist I have limited time to get out and use my equipment getting there and having a dead battery is the difference between getting what I want to do done and driving back to town to buy a battery etc. or waiting for it to recharge (if it will) and that applies to getting my motorcycle or atv started as well as my tractor. Sure the website has some quotes that people write in that make sense to them and our marketing people but not to you and sometimes me either. Most of the website is marketing but the plate graphics and explanation are quite good in terms of showing you the difference between cycling with with and without pulsing. Not to defend the quotes the company uses but in the case of the one you selected what he meant was since adopting our technology his battery life had already surpassed what he had been getting in the past so he was happy and he didn't know how much more he was going to get out of the batteries.
The reports I referred to are about an inch and half thick double sided and bound so it is not scanned and posted.
If you want to read the summary I can break it up and email it to you depending on what size files you can handle.
As for solar systems the 2 watt retails for 89.95 and it is plenty for anything that does not have significant key off parasitic loads. You can also use a QuadLink and maintain 4 pieces of equipment with one maintenance charger. Though the Xtreme you mentioned is a 2.5A charger so it can be used on large batteries too. So it does more than just desufate batteries, it will also charge them and act as a maintainer.
So send me an email if you'd like to read the report since I don't want to be accused of not supporting the information I presented and since you're close by stop in and I'll walk you through the lab so you can have a better idea what we do with batteries. Then you can explain all of this stuff.
One other thing the military is getting 18-24 mo out of their red top Optima's right now, a lot of that has to do with their use profile but unfortunately they don't seem to be lasting as long as the older ones.
Mark
If you're getting 8 yrs out of your battery more power to you (pun intended). What you are experiencing is great but not the norm for batteries and unfortunately the cost of lead has driven prices up and in some cases quality down so you might not be as fortunate on your next battery. You being just up the road in Wise county makes your battery life even more impressive since I'm all too familiar with the heat we've have the past few years.
Having said that why is having equipment start when you want it to important? As a hobbyist I have limited time to get out and use my equipment getting there and having a dead battery is the difference between getting what I want to do done and driving back to town to buy a battery etc. or waiting for it to recharge (if it will) and that applies to getting my motorcycle or atv started as well as my tractor. Sure the website has some quotes that people write in that make sense to them and our marketing people but not to you and sometimes me either. Most of the website is marketing but the plate graphics and explanation are quite good in terms of showing you the difference between cycling with with and without pulsing. Not to defend the quotes the company uses but in the case of the one you selected what he meant was since adopting our technology his battery life had already surpassed what he had been getting in the past so he was happy and he didn't know how much more he was going to get out of the batteries.
The reports I referred to are about an inch and half thick double sided and bound so it is not scanned and posted.
If you want to read the summary I can break it up and email it to you depending on what size files you can handle.
As for solar systems the 2 watt retails for 89.95 and it is plenty for anything that does not have significant key off parasitic loads. You can also use a QuadLink and maintain 4 pieces of equipment with one maintenance charger. Though the Xtreme you mentioned is a 2.5A charger so it can be used on large batteries too. So it does more than just desufate batteries, it will also charge them and act as a maintainer.
So send me an email if you'd like to read the report since I don't want to be accused of not supporting the information I presented and since you're close by stop in and I'll walk you through the lab so you can have a better idea what we do with batteries. Then you can explain all of this stuff.
One other thing the military is getting 18-24 mo out of their red top Optima's right now, a lot of that has to do with their use profile but unfortunately they don't seem to be lasting as long as the older ones.
Mark