Ford 1900 wont start...electrical?

[JC-jetro]

Eric,

My suggestion at this point is to remove the starter entirely off the tractor and take it to closest auto part supply for a test. They can do that test for free and should take only a few minutes. Take a pic of the wires first before taking the starter off. Taking starter off the tractor should take but a few minutes as well.The solenoid coil is either functional or open caused by a short or fused due a short as well. There might be crud on the solenoid where it will not be able to move the plunger in or out with a good coil. Solenoid once operational and activated in starter acts as a switch (relay) to provide electrical juice to main winding. You can bypass solenoid and directly put juice on the starter winding to turn it on. it seems non of those suggestions by others have not worked so far. although they are all valid methodology. My guess is that there is an open in something caused by a short. Can do continuity check on solenoid coil and other to diagnose but you got to break the starter down more to basic parts. Auto part store can check both solenoid and starter winding on bench but beyond that it needs to be taken apart. I don't think you can hurt it any by disassembly and checking things out if part store is not able to spin it.

JC,

[Hooked_on_HP]

My nightly update...I tightend the small screw on the solenoid and cleaned the terminal its attached to. That didn't help anything. So, I grabbed a jumper cable hooked to the + battery terminal, then directly to the small terminal on the solenoid. This produces a lot of spark and the solenoid clicks but does not engage the starter. Hooking the jumper to the large lug gives a small spark, but the starter doesnt spin at all. This is all with the clutch pedal blocked down. What do we think?

Bill, regarding the replacement ignition switch I installed, I attempted to use that to start the tractor from the seat, just for kicks. Turning the key to the left and holding it heats the glow plugs as it should. Then turning to the right, past "ON", to "START" when I get to a certain point it will stay in the "START" position even when I take my hand off of it (just the same as it stays in the "ON" psotion when I take my hand off of it). Is this normal? I'm not sure if I'm turning it past where its intended to tunr to crank the motor over, and unfortunately I can't tell because I get no starter clicks or cranking using the key. Also, when I turn the key to the "ON" position, the light that comes on in tach is the same light as the glow plugs. Shouldn't the other light for the battery be coming on?Thanks,Eric

The key should not stay in the start position. When the key is in the start position it is also powering the glow plugs. My glow plug light is not in the tach. The lights in the tach are oil pressure and volts. The glow plg indicator is a silver circle about the size of a quarter to the right of the steering colonm. It is not realy a light. It is a coil the gets red hot indicating the glow plugs are hot.
Bill

[freebird4986]

Eric,

My suggestion at this point is to remove the starter entirely off the tractor and take it to closest auto part supply for a test. They can do that test for free and should take only a few minutes. Take a pic of the wires first before taking the starter off. Taking starter off the tractor should take but a few minutes as well.The solenoid coil is either functional or open caused by a short or fused due a short as well. There might be crud on the solenoid where it will not be able to move the plunger in or out with a good coil. Solenoid once operational and activated in starter acts as a switch (relay) to provide electrical juice to main winding. You can bypass solenoid and directly put juice on the starter winding to turn it on. it seems non of those suggestions by others have not worked so far. although they are all valid methodology. My guess is that there is an open in something caused by a short. Can do continuity check on solenoid coil and other to diagnose but you got to break the starter down more to basic parts. Auto part store can check both solenoid and starter winding on bench but beyond that it needs to be taken apart. I don't think you can hurt it any by disassembly and checking things out if part store is not able to spin it.

JC,

Thanks JC. Pulling the starter/solenoid seems a good option at this point. As soon as I have a moment to pull it, I'll bring them down to NAPA for a bench test.

[freebird4986]

The key should not stay in the start position. When the key is in the start position it is also powering the glow plugs. My glow plug light is not in the tach. The lights in the tach are oil pressure and volts. The glow plg indicator is a silver circle about the size of a quarter to the right of the steering colonm. It is not realy a light. It is a coil the gets red hot indicating the glow plugs are hot.
Bill

I didn't think it should stay in the start position. It must be either the oil pressure or voltage light on the dash coming on. I do have the glow plug indicator on the right side of the dash that glows orange when current runs through it when the plugs are juiced. That's working properly.

Thank you all for your patience and advice as we work through this. We'll get this thing running eventually! I'll post another update once I get the starter tested.

Eric

[freebird4986]

Good Morning All,

Here's an update. I pulled the starter solenoid and brought it to an Auto Electric shop near my work. He replaced solenoid, replaced the brushes, cleaned armature (which a mud wasp had built a nest around), new lugs and hardware, coat of paint. It looks great. And more importantly, the starter now works...but the tractor isn't running... yet. I re-installed the starter tried the key, and got nothing. So, I ran a jumper from the + battery terminal to the + lug on the starter because I'm still suspect of the battery lead and haven't had a chance to replace it (although juice is getting through to the glow plugs). Doing this, and jumping across the starter lugs the engine cranks over, but I can't seem to get it to catch. I drained the fuel filter to make sure no water, then bleed that, and also bleed the injector lines. It has been cold, the tractor has been outside and I think that is part of the dificulty getting it going.
As far as the wiring/electrical, the ignition switch is not springing back to ON from the START position, as previously mentioned, so I'm returning it. I'm going to pull the dash panel and trace every single wire, as using the key still won't start the machine. Also, I got the glow plug indicator to come on using the key a few times while jump starting, then it stopped working, and with out adequate glow plug use, and 15F temps w/out wind chill, I think I was fighting a losing battle trying to jump start it.
It took 4 of us, but we were able to roll it into the garage, bucket dragging the whole way. I'm looking to get a magnetic heater for it, so when I'm ready to start, I at least have something a little warmer to work with.

[JC-jetro]

Eric,

I'm glad the starter is operational now. It appears to be an uphill battle all the way. When you bled the injector line all the way to the injector where you able to see live fuel delivery while cranking? I take it that you loosened the nut at the injector some to see mixture of air bubble and fuel till fuel became steady. A bit of air in the injector line and pump can pulsate without actually making flow as the air is a lot more compressible than diesel fuel. You can directly put electrical juice off the battery to the glow plug directly for 15-20 second before attempting to crank. I'll do that to see if I can the tractor to run and then keep it running for a while to burn off the crud and some good circulation in fuel to injector pump to injectors.



JC,

[freebird4986]

Thanks JC. It surely is an uphill battle, but I'm confident that man will beat machine in the end. Luckily I had an extra set of hands when bleeding the fuel system, and we did crack the nut at the injector until we observed steady flow of bubble free fuel. I like the idea of putting juice directly to the glow plugs, too. My goal at this point is to get it running so, as you say, fuel can circulate, the engine can heat up, and it can "clean" itself up. I think time and the elements have done a job on the wiring harness and connections, so I really need to thoroughly go through all of it now, rather than have to chase down another bad connection later on...

[JC-jetro]

I'd fire it up like I suggested just to see if a lot of extra work in warranted or not. I know you spent money on the starter which you could not avoid. I believe steady and slow and , methodical and you'll beat the beast or put it to it's final resting place.

JC,

Thanks JC. It surely is an uphill battle, but I'm confident that man will beat machine in the end. Luckily I had an extra set of hands when bleeding the fuel system, and we did crack the nut at the injector until we observed steady flow of bubble free fuel. I like the idea of putting juice directly to the glow plugs, too. My goal at this point is to get it running so, as you say, fuel can circulate, the engine can heat up, and it can "clean" itself up. I think time and the elements have done a job on the wiring harness and connections, so I really need to thoroughly go through all of it now, rather than have to chase down another bad connection later on...

[Hooked_on_HP]

If it is 15 deg out side I have to have to heat the glowplugs for about 45 sec. Are you seeing any smoke from the stack while you are cranking it..
Bill

[freebird4986]

Hi all, I'm back with an update. I've been tinkering for the last couple of weeks. Checked all wires and connections, and pulled some unused wires for things like cigarette lighter, flashers, etc. (i'll be wiring new lights in later on). I tested the old ignition switch, and it appears to be working as it should. Now using the ignition switch and jumping the starter produces the same result, which is, the engine starts to crank, and continues to crank and crank, even when i let go of the key and it turns back to on. My first question is, why would jumping the starter, or turning the key to START make the engine start cranking and continue cranking...and the only way I can get it to stop is by pulling the negative battery lead. It seems there is still an electrical issue...thoughts?
That aside, with all the cranking, the engine never starts. The battery died from turning it over for so long. The glow plugs all work, the engine is puffing smoke out the exhaust stack, I even gave it a shot of ether right into the intake, and it just doesn't want to go. I installed an inline heater in the lower radiator hose, but from what I've read in other threads on here, I need to get the motor running so the coolant circulates and air is bleed out before I should use the heater. Is that true?
Thanks