Major transmission hydraulic leak

[jwstewar]

I've been moving a bunch of dirt into the new barn. The good thing is I'm getting close, the bad thing is I've been noticing some
oil drips in my "path." At first I thought it was from where the rubber line joins the metal line along the side of the transmission that I've fix a couple
times before (once under warranty). Well, unfortunately that isn't the case. As you can see from the pics, it is running out of the tranny itself and running down the front drive shaft. Not sure what I'm going to get into here. Looking on ebay to see if I can buy a repair manual for it. Not a good start to mowing season.

I guess would help to say, this is my 2003 New Holland TC-24D with a tick over 1700 hours.

 

[jinman]

I've been moving a bunch of dirt into the new barn. The good thing is I'm getting close, the bad thing is I've been noticing some
oil drips in my "path." At first I thought it was from where the rubber line joins the metal line along the side of the transmission that I've fix a couple
times before (once under warranty). Well, unfortunately that isn't the case. As you can see from the pics, it is running out of the tranny itself and running down the front drive shaft. Not sure what I'm going to get into here. Looking on ebay to see if I can buy a repair manual for it. Not a good start to mowing View attachment 366792View attachment 366793View attachment 366794season.

I guess would help to say, this is my 2003 New Holland TC-24D with a tick over 1700 hours.

Jim, I wish I could offer you some additional advice, but you seem to have done the correct analysis based on what I see in your photos. I think your engine or transmission seal is leaking. Can you tell if it is hydraulic or engine oil?

 

[jwstewar]

Jim it is hydraulic fluid. I sent pictures to my wife's uncle. He is a New Holland mechanic. He said looks to be either a seal for the front drive shaft or possibly some type of line running up over top. Our temp dropped back down to about 38 for a high today so whenever I can get back outside and not have to be all bundled up, I'll let you know more. In the meantime if anyone else has had this please chime in.

 

[jwstewar]

I finally had a day to look at this, unfortunately I didn't make any progress. I crawled under it and looked up in the slot where the front drive shaft comes out with a flash light and I can't see where the fluid is coming from. I then pulled the mat off the operator platform and took the dash panel loose. I even removed the platform from the left side, I still can't see where the oil is coming from. I think the tractor is going to have to be split. I really wish I could get someone else to look at it and let me know for sure - the wife's uncle is out of the question at this point due to "family issues" and it doesn't involve me . On the good side, I did find a manual on ebay tonight and ordered it, the bad part is it was $170. I almost ordered the CD from New Holland, but it would have set me back an additional $60, so I stayed with the paper version.

I added fluid to it tonight and tried to mow. I ran it for about 45 minutes and the belt and the entire deck of the MMM are covered in fluid. Without the MMM, I know not good, but at least I was able to drive it/use it by just keeping an eye on fluid. I don't see how I can do it with the MMM. Now hopefully after spending $170 for a manual, I can figure out how to fix it.

 

[jwstewar]

I haven't been good at keeping this thread up to date, partly because of laziness, partly because I can't get pictures to load. But I did start working on the tractor back at the first part of May. Got everything torn down and got the tractor split. After calling several dealerships and even a hydraulic repair company I ended up taking it to Franklin Equipment here in Columbus, Ohio. It was about $600 to tear the pump down and install new seals. Then by the time I bought new filters and fluids and such it was right at $900. Took them about 6 days (5 shop hours) to do it. Got the pump installed fairly quickly. But because of other commitments I didn't have time to try to do the recombine. Finally I did and ran into trouble getting everything lined up. Finally with the help of some daylight hours and sunshine vs. trying to do it with shop lights and flashlights, I was able to see what I was doing. Then I took 2 ratchet straps and pulled the 2 axles together. I "felt" it go into place. I put the bolts in and tightened them down finger tight. Got the torque wrench out and proceeded to torque them down - I broke one. I was reading the specs for the wrong bolts. I had read 80 ft. lbs. and these were supposed to be 40 ft. lbs. That was Friday. I went and bought new 10.9 bolts to put in all of the holes and a screw extractor. I tried drilling it Saturday morning without making much progress. Then a buddy came over that works at a fabrication shop. We worked together on it for probably 5 hours. Tried several different bits. Ended up breaking the extractor off in the hole. He then had a carbon bit that we tried. It was going in some, but was really chewing the bit up. Still haven't gotten it out. The bolt is on the side, so for now, I've continued putting the tractor back together. He is going to see if he can come up with some left handed drill bits today. If that doesn't work, I will probably just end up trying to run it as is. Then if I have to split it again for some reason (clutch or throw out bearing) I will have that housing put in a press and cleaned at that time.

In the mean time, I've got all of the hydraulic lines hooked back up, brake pedals, clutch pedal, right floor board (which was a bit of a challenge because of the parking brake and such). Got the rear fenders installed. Hoping to maybe "fool" the tractor in to starting in the next day or so before I finish putting it all back together and see if it moves. Was planning on doing it tonight, but I decided to change the washers on the drain plugs and they only had 1 today. So I will pick them up tomorrow and then refill the hydraulic fluid. So far, I prefilled the pump as best I could and prefilled the filters before installation. Not sure of anything else to do at this point to get ready for the refire.

 

[barbqranch]

You can get left handed drill bits from McMaster.com, if you can't find them any other place.

 

[davisarc]

Same problem, I'm guessing, and right now the thought of breaking my tractor sounds much less appealing than it did last night. Dripping trails while plowing this winter after several years of slowly increasing fluid usage and a nagging suspicion that things weren't quite right but had no objective evidence. I've recently degreased the entire tractor(even up under the cowlings) and replaced the hose fittings at the hydro tranny cooler up front and along the sides. Then I replaced the HST & HYD filters, turned the key and was rewarded with an engine that remains clean. The leaking front hoses and the fan had previously spun a fine film of dust catching oil. Checked out the HST filter and found minimal metal dust so it seems my gears are still good and the bucket & rear blade remained airborne for 36 hours so I'm feeling good about the the main hydraulics. Went back and hand dug all the gunk & spruce needles out from the driveshaft and tranny compartments, washed it out with hot, hot water and then dried it off with brake cleaner....now waiting for the rain to stop so I can power up and maybe, hopefully, see where the fluid is leaking.

My questions have been: do those HST hoses really just disappear into the housing with a bushing & an O-ring? what holds it in? can I remove the hydrostatic without breaking the tractor? Can I slide the shaft back and take a peek inside the hydro without removing it? who manufactured the hydrostatic? can I cross-reference the NH#?

My local dealership hasn't been all that helpful as they didn't sell a lot of the tc series, New Holland "helped" by finding me another dealer to speak with. The sticker on the tractor clearly says "Made in Japan" but NH rep said it was made in Georgia...Huh??? I'm guessing the blue metal was placed in Georgia while the cast iron tractor shipped as a pre-assembled unit from Japan....wouldn't "clearspeak" be more helpful?

Does anyone know if the TC24D is the same as the Shibaura SX24D?

Will let you know how things progress when the rain stops.

 

[jwstewar]

To answer your questions, the hydraulic lines "disappear" into the pump. The ones under pressure are held in by banjo bolds. Anything not under pressure are held in by the force of the line.

There is no way to remove the hydrostatic pump without splitting the tractor. Its spline on the input goes into the clutch and the two outputs go to the rear of the tractor. Once you have it apart far enough to "see" which you can't really see, the work is done. You will still have the hard part of sliding it back together. I couldn't see where my pump was leaking, it just had a "clean" spot on it. The pump is made by Kayaba. I talked with Wooster Hydrostatics - that is all they do, but they were honest and told me up front, that more than likely they couldn't get parts for it, even though they work on other Kayaba parts. NH has it tied up so they can't get parts for them.

BTW, I've got my tractor put completely back together and have put almost 10 hours on it and all is dry. I never did get that bolt out. I'm just using as is. I've yet to do much loader work though, that will come this weekend when I go back to hauling dirt into the barn.

 

[TO_Bud]

That's quite a tale of woe you have there Jim, Murphy's Law on full display. It seems we all have days (weeks, months) like this from time to time. Glad to hear you stuck with it and have a mostly favorable outcome. I think that once the extractor broke off in the hole any chance of drilling it out is gone. Extractors are usually much harder steel than the surrounding metal or even drill bits for that matter. Any attempt at drilling will usually just deflect to the side and you end up boring into the housing. I think your only option to remove it is as you have said, wait until it comes back apart. Hope that is later than sooner.

Bud

 

[davisarc]

Thanks for the help. My hours are 1524, close to your 1700.' After loading the replacement hydro fluid with a UV sensitive dye (used SuperCool, but later found that Tracer offers many colors, don't mix any colors together) we ran it for about 20 minutes just pulling a plow blade across loose dirt with no leakage signs in 2wd. Next I dug the bucket into a Drainage ditch to remove loose silt and rocks, the 4 wheel was needed to back the unit out with a half bucket which was expected and soon thereafter I found drip lines on the ground. The tractor had reached warm and the hst was under more load. When checked, the fluid level was still OK but I put hear away and waited for nightfall. The cheap RayoVac LED UV flashlight sells here for about $13, significantly less expensive than other light sources. I've had to tap it a few times but it has worked well enough to see the hydro fluid leak from the steel tube part #25 on the NH parts diagram for the HST piping, the mystery end with just an O-ring, no banjo bolt. Sounds familiar. UV light also reveals the pedal damper housing covered in fluid and a dispersion down the drive shaft to the universal joint; sliding back that boot revealed a self-dispensing pile of black good sheened with fluorescence. Nothing in the rear end of the runny cover or rear gears, now trying to convince myself that the problem is all in the pipe connection and that the line line of color at the first seal back is just migration of the color by virtue of the spinning drive shaft....? Got quite a surprise to suddenly see the tin plate attached to the tranny and debated removing the drive shaft for a better view up the slot but decided on recording the parts viewed by sliding the damper boot back and swabbing the nameplate. Yes, Kayaba! What could be seen:
...........80200-16003
HVR......-R25-P-LT
S/.......0080 250K. (Might be 1080)
KAYA.......TRY CO. LTD. JAPAN

Maybe this will help someone, I'm focusing on the fluid line and any possible role a back flow or relief valve may play in the leak at the O-ring end. Noted that NH has a substitute part ordering number for this item.

Cheers