I've Got A Dry Bowl !!

tc35dforme · Apr 3, 2006

I\'ve Got A Dry Bowl !!

Fired up the TC for some clean up chores after very little use this winter...ran fine....to a point. While climbing a slight grade, the motor slowed and coughed...starving for fuel. I shut down and checked the filter bowl. It was nearly dry. I did have fuel in the tank !!. I uscrewed the bowl and got very little fuel through the line. Filled the bowl and reassembled. Tractor started fine but I could see the bowl empty. I kept the tractor running completing my chores, but I only get 3/8" of fuel in the bowl.

Is the bowl feed by gravity or is a vacuum formed by the pump that draws fuel in ? The O-ring looked fine.

The fuel tank was pulled last fall and cleaned due to a similar problem that was thought to be related to contamination in the tank. Pulling the filler cap off the tank makes no difference.

Thoughts ??

djradz · Apr 3, 2006

Re: I\'ve Got A Dry Bowl !!

You're probably already thinking the same thing, but I'm guessing it's a plugged line or pickup in the tank, especially based on your prior history. Try pulling the line at the bowl that comes from the tank. Yes it is gravity feed, so it should rush out if clear. If not, you probably need to reclean the tank, pickup and line. ...and then start to figure out why it got plugged in the first place. My tractor has over 600 hours and I've never even had to change the filter and many that get good clean fuel report similar results. Good Luck!

Soundguy · Apr 3, 2006

Re: I\'ve Got A Dry Bowl !!

Last time I had fuel problems on my NH tractor, i had to pull the fuel tap fromt he tank, and there was a finger shaped filter atop the fuel tap.. it was clogged with black gunk and impeded fuel flow to the point the tractor would only idle.

Soundguy

PineRidge · Apr 3, 2006

Re: I\'ve Got A Dry Bowl !!

We had the same problem as SoundGuy described. A fine screen filter was above the fuel bowl and totally plugged with crap. While I had the bowl out I thought it a good idea to flush the debris from the fuel tank itself.

tc35dforme · Apr 3, 2006

Re: I\'ve Got A Dry Bowl !!

PineRidge...was that screen at the tank inlet to the hose or in the cast housing that supports the bowl ??

jinman · Apr 3, 2006

Re: I\'ve Got A Dry Bowl !!

One thing you might try is reverse pressure on the fuel line. I'm not sure how easy this might be to do, but you might even be able to do it by removing the filter. If not, you'll have to remove the fuel line attachment to the filter bowl. Next, apply very low pressure (20 psi or less) to the line to try to blow backwards into the tank and dislodge whatever is clogging your line. This would probably be a temporary fix at best and would only tell you that your problem is trash from the tank. You might get lucky and find the filter/On-Off valve is clogged and the line from the tank is okay. If you can remove most of the fuel from the tank, it will reduce the chance of a large quantity spilled. You will spill some fuel no matter how hard you try not to. Of course, all the disclaimers about fuel spillage and fire hazards apply. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Birdman253 · Apr 3, 2006

Re: I\'ve Got A Dry Bowl !!

You may have already done this, but check and make sure that the fuel shut-off vavle (if your model has one) is completely open. Occassionally the valve will be partially turned closed, and you will get exactly the symptoms you have described.

If valve is open, would vote for clogged tank strainer, or plugged/kinked/pinched fuel line.

Hope this helps!

PineRidge · Apr 3, 2006

Re: I\'ve Got A Dry Bowl !!

On top of the fuel bowl was a threaded nipple that screwed into the bottom of the diesel tank. On the top of that nipple was the screen. I would be out mowing and all of a sudden the tractor would die in its tracks. If I let it sit for a few minutes it would restart and then go through the same process again. When I took the fuel line off the bowl I quickly determined by the small trickle that there was indeed a lack of diesel, so I started taking things apart further.

Pressure from an air hose might certainly be a temporary fix but once crud is in the tank there is only one long term fix, flush the tank, clean the screens and filter bowl.

I eventually eliminated the screen in the tank altogether since the filter in the bowl satisfied my needs.

tc35dforme · Apr 4, 2006

Re: I\'ve Got A Dry Bowl !!

Weather doesn't allow any work right now, but when it I can, I'll pull the tank and do a better cleaning. What's the prevailing wisdom for cleaning the tank. what do I use as a rinse agent....Am I asking for trouble by using a solvent cleaner like Simple Green and then letting it dry out completely ??

Soundguy · Apr 4, 2006

Re: I\'ve Got A Dry Bowl !!

Pinridge is right on.. same setup on my NH7610s super fine finger sized screen atop the fuel tap. Mine was so dirty i replaced the? 24$ fuel tap and filter.. drained the tank first.. filtered the fuel.. and have had no problems since.

Soundguy

djradz · Apr 4, 2006

Re: I\'ve Got A Dry Bowl !!

I would not use Simple Green as it will require significant rinsing with water to get it out of the tank, and then you need to work to get the water out! Some will probably say it's not the safest way to go, but I think I might try gasoline, the handyman's solvent, if you can't think of anything better. I would let the gas set for a day or so just to be sure any paraffin or other junk dissolves. Maybe injector cleaner would work and be safer, but I'm not sure.

One suggestion: I'd consider filtering you fuel from now on when pouring it, and maybe consider a different source if you haven't already.

PineRidge · Apr 5, 2006

Re: I\'ve Got A Dry Bowl !!

I actually removed the tank after draining it and put a half quart of paint thinner in the tank before I gave it the shakes. Drained the first mess and followed up with the remainder of the quart and gave it the shakes again. The second rinse came out clean. Took a clean shop rag, punched a hole in it and tied a stiff piece of electrical wire via the hole in the rag. Pushed the rag in the tank and used a broomstick to move it around to absorb and remaining paint thinner. Then it was a simple matter of yanking the wire to extract the damp rag. From that point on you should have a clean fuel tank.

djradz · Apr 6, 2006

Re: I\'ve Got A Dry Bowl !!

How about just a couple of more rinses with clean diesel fuel or was there junk coming out with the rag?

Also, isn't there a "neck" on the tank that makes rinsing more difficult. Seems my 40D has such and it would make it tough to get anything to come out of the tank when pouring upside down. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

tc35dforme · Apr 8, 2006

Re: I\'ve Got A Dry Bowl !!

Well..its fixed !!! Wasn't a blockage, wasn't a dirty screen, wasn't a bad shut off valve. It was a flooded vent tube for the filter bowl...the small hose than returns to the top of the tank. Apparently with liquid in that line, the bowl was kind of 'vapor locked'. No vent = no inlet. It was only allowing fuel into the bowl at a rate equal to what the engine was burning.

Learned all about the tank and fuel system though. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

jinman · Apr 9, 2006

Re: I\'ve Got A Dry Bowl !!

Glad you got it fixed. The fuel in the vent tube kind of makes me wonder what caused it and if it might happen again.

tc35dforme · Apr 10, 2006

Re: I\'ve Got A Dry Bowl !!

Jinman...I was thinking about that too.... I never did confirm it was fuel...I blew out the line with a straw from the tank end and felt and heard the "spwatt" as the liquid blew through the top of the filter housing. There was enough other drippage on the cardboard under the tractor that I couldn't really tell if it was fuel. It seems like there was too much to be water condensation.

Bottom line...fuel flow is good now.

An FYI for anyone who cares....on my TC35D ( 2001 or 2002 ? ) there is no screen of filter at the fitting at the tank. Its simply a metal tube elbow stuffed into a rubber grommet in the tank. Nothing at the filter housing either.

djradz · Apr 10, 2006

Re: I\'ve Got A Dry Bowl !!

( on my TC35D ( 2001 or 2002 ? ) there is no screen of filter at the fitting at the tank. Its simply a metal tube elbow stuffed into a rubber grommet in the tank. Nothing at the filter housing either. )

Thanks for the info. So are you essentially saying there is nothing between the tank and the filter. Not a bad thing as far as I'm concerned, if so. At least when there's junk at the filter, I can see whatever it is as opposed to in the tank or some small screen, neither of which I can see at all.

tc35dforme · Apr 10, 2006

Re: I\'ve Got A Dry Bowl !!

I couldn't find anything between the tank and filter. I got a really good visual on the tank supply fitting through the gauge opening on top of the tank.

I wish New Holland had maybe put a stop valve at the tank...It would have made tank removal / draining a lot easier ! At the very least, a separate drain tapping on the tank would help.

Soundguy · Apr 10, 2006

Re: I\'ve Got A Dry Bowl !!

( An FYI for anyone who cares....on my TC35D ( 2001 or 2002 ? ) there is no screen of filter at the fitting at the tank. Its simply a metal tube elbow stuffed into a rubber grommet in the tank. Nothing at the filter housing either. )

Are you saying that the fuel tap that attaches to the tank ( threads in or bolts to ).. has no filter assembly atop it? To see it you would have to remove the fuel tap from the tank completely.

If that's the case.. yuk! I'd much rather have a first line of defense to keep crap out of the rest of the system.

Soundguy

Soundguy · Apr 10, 2006

Re: I\'ve Got A Dry Bowl !!

( Some will probably say it's not the safest way to go, but I think I might try gasoline, the handyman's solvent, if you can't think of anything better )

I prefer mineral spirits or naptha for this... the MS won't be horrible like gas may be if mixed into the diesel.. and naptha won't stay around for more than a few minutes without evaporating anyway..

Soundguy