TC-45 transmission split open

[IH3444]

Still haven't heard if it was a 3ph backhoe, or a subframe mounted one. Looks like a classic case of 3ph backhoe putting tremendous stress on the center case steel bell housing casting causing it to fail. Seen two others on TBN, one was a John Deere, the other was a Kubota. Both caused by a 3ph backhoe.

 

[Soundguy]

Well Sound Guy, I can see that I'll never convince you that there is always a better way of building things without sacrificing somewhere. And You'll never convince me that I should honor traditional design. So we'll call it a draw and leave it at that.

I never said that I didn't beleive that there are better ways to build things.. As our technology increases and our material design and handling become more refined.. I fully expect to see many advances. I just don't expect to see all thos advances being immediatly bumped over to ag work before they are more fully tested and exploited by govt and industry. For a comparison... look at computer technology available to the govt' ... light years ahead of what is setting on a office depot store shelf as 'new' and 'just released'...

My point about venerated technology is that it is not automatically obsolete due to age. That is.. if the design works.. why spend alot to change it, untill that change becomes cheaper and tested and widely available and used in other markets.... Some devices just pretty much go thru history very similar to how they were invented... I don't see any need to rework a clay hammer, an anvil, an axe a wood saw.. etc. By your definition of design aga and technology.. all those items are obsolete and need to be redesigned..

Hey i know.. lets make an aluminum sledge hammer... but hang some cast iron weights on the side of it!!!

( yes.. we disagree.. I see no reason to abandon older but working technology at this point in time.., if it suits my needs and budget )

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

I saw this on another forum.. thouhgt i would post it here. Apaprently not everybody thinks that just because something is old.. that it is obsolete.

Soundguy

Topic: Some thinks can't be improved.
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Author
IaGary
08-31-2006 02:50:21
496884

Was at the Farm Progress show in Amana yesterday.
I stopped at the New Holland booth to look at the balers.

I looked at the knotters on the square balers and realized they have not changed them in over 50 years and maybe even longer.

I'm sure that they maybe changed them just a little but it looks like the parts from our old Super 69 we had would fit on this 2007 model.

 

[have_blue]

Hey i know.. lets make an aluminum sledge hammer... but hang some cast iron weights on the side of it!!!
Soundguy

That's not really my way. It's not the simplest, strongest, or least likely to fail. My way to build a sledgehammer is just the way they're built today.

Let's make the sledgehammer your way:

Make a complex mold and cast the hammer's walls in 1/4" thick steel, and cast the handle as an integral part while we're at it. Fill the hollow cast hammer with metal gears and oil for ballast.

That way, if you crack the handle, the entire hammer is scrap.

While we're at it, let's build a 6' disk harrow from a single casting. That way, when a cross bar or brace cracks, we can replace the entire frame.

/sarcasm off


But I see your point, and I agree. Simple, strong, and economical to repair is always better.

I am not out to destroy tradition just for the sake of destroying it. I believe that a large, complex, expensive machine like a CUT should not have any single part that costs a high percentage of the tractor's value. I also believe that very costly parts on small tractors should ideally be designed to be repairable. With those things in mind, they can build them any way they want.

 

[Turbys_1700]

I'll lay odds that a 3-pt back-hoe was used...
Too much stress...
I have yet to see a broken housing with a properly mounted sub-framed back-hoe...
Not that they have not occurred...
I've just not seen it...

 

[MikePA]

Why do I have feeling this thread will end up like this thead...TC33D Broke In Half

New poster only posting a couple replies and then nothing again with no updated photos.

A 'drive by' posting.

 

[Soundguy]

I think you are still not comparing apples to apples in your example.( i know it was a fake example.. but hear me out.. ) Remember.. the entire tractor is not a single casting end to end. it's about 5+ castings bolted together. In your cast sledgehammer analogy, when the handle broke, you remove the 1 or 2 pieces that broke, then put it back together with those 1-2 pieces

Same with the disc.. it's not one uniform piece of metal.. just like a tractor is not one uniform piece of metal.. its a front end, and engine, a tranny, a center/hyds section and rear end, and seperate rear axle trumpets... Those are each replaceable individually.

No piece of the tractor can be an expensive part? I think you have a real mathematical problem. If you have a tractor.. .. lets take one I'm familiar with.. and is newer.. say.. my 7610s. it has a front axle section and cast front support.. I'll count that as 1 piece , engine, trans, hyds/rear end. seperate axle trumpets each side.. Add the tire/rim to each side as an assembly, for ease. Count the rops and sheetmetal with the parts they are attached to.. Thats 6 major components. At a new price in the high 20's .. if you went by unit.. that's about 4.5K$ per area, averaged. I think you will have a problem finding a tractor that has cheap individual sections. So saying that no single part can be a high percentage of the tractors worth.. is probably not feasable under the current economic conditions present in this world.

Repair / rebuild? Uh.. i thought many parts were repairable / rebuildable? As long as your block and head are good.. most engines can be resleaved or bored and and new internals dropped in.

Individual gears in the rear end and trans can be replaced. Friction materials can be replaced. starters and alternators can be rebuilt.. sheet metal comes in pieces.. just about every bolt on part can be bought seperately.

I'm not sure what you want? A super high tech machine using the very latest and strongest / lightest materials available to mankind.. but it has to be virtually free, and each piece has to have a negligible cost and be 100% renewable or repairable. I'm sorry my friend.. but that is 'star trek' technology.. and we ain't there yet...


Soundguy

Make a complex mold and cast the hammer's walls in 1/4" thick steel, and cast the handle as an integral part while we're at it. Fill the hollow cast hammer with metal gears and oil for ballast.

That way, if you crack the handle, the entire hammer is scrap.

While we're at it, let's build a 6' disk harrow from a single casting. That way, when a cross bar or brace cracks, we can replace the entire frame.

/sarcasm off


But I see your point, and I agree. Simple, strong, and economical to repair is always better.

I am not out to destroy tradition just for the sake of destroying it. I believe that a large, complex, expensive machine like a CUT should not have any single part that costs a high percentage of the tractor's value. I also believe that very costly parts on small tractors should ideally be designed to be repairable. With those things in mind, they can build them any way they want.

 

[IH3444]

Looks as tho RC1 was trolling for additional cases of failed bell housing to support a possible lawsuit. The fact that we still haven't heard exactly which backhoe mounting the tractor has, leads me to belive that it is a 3ph, thereby voiding any possibility of a lawsuit. I've yet to hear, or see of any subframe mounted backhoe of causing this type of major failure. I also believe that NH, JD, Kubota, and most, if not all others reccommend mounting a subframed backhoe only. The extremely high quality steel alloy casting of the NH tractors, as well as others, may be thinner than in years pass, but doesn't necessary mean cheaper either. The machine just weren't designed to undergo the stresses placed onto them without a subframe support, and reinforement if a backhoe is used as an attachment. Looks like he will have to pay for the entire repair. With damage that major, it makes buying a quality backhoe, such as a Woods, with a subframe look like a bargain. Not the mention being without the tractor, and the recovery, or retrival issues involved. My IH3444 construction TLB has a very massive bellhousing castings, and also in addition, an extreme massive heavy duty subframe also.

 

[have_blue]

I'm not sure what you want? A super high tech machine using the very latest and strongest / lightest materials available to mankind.. but it has to be virtually free, and each piece has to have a negligible cost and be 100% renewable or repairable. I'm sorry my friend.. but that is 'star trek' technology.. and we ain't there yet...
Soundguy

Not really.

All I would like to see is massive steel box frame instead of a transmission housing holding the tractor together. That's all.

Why not start with a box frame? Engine, FEL, and BH could bolt directly to the frame rather than a mounting kit. Maybe break the tranaxle down into a transmission and 1 or 2 differentials. That's hardly new tech.

Just think of the possibilities. You chould choose between 2 or 3 wheelbases when you buy a new tractor. You could possibly even have an adjustable wheelbase to suit the job at hand. You could have a solid suspension as we do now, or you could flip a switch and activate a simple, rugged suspension for transport and fast mowing. I'm mainly saying that steel frames are more rugged and versatile than castings. High strength steel beams suitable for frames were impossible to manufacture at 1 time. I think that's why the castings evolved in the first place.

It took many years and a lot of convincing to convert farmers from iron wheels to rubber tires. I think today's tractor design parallels that. I think it's more psychological than mechanical or economic.

 

[Soundguy]

Not really.

All I would like to see is massive steel box frame instead of a transmission housing holding the tractor together. That's all.

Why not start with a box frame? Engine, FEL, and BH could bolt directly to the frame rather than a mounting kit. Maybe break the tranaxle down into a transmission and 1 or 2 differentials. That's hardly new tech.

.

Wait.. it's becoming clear.. you want a steel frame to add support.. perhaps to bolt the backhoe to.. it's becoming clearer.. bingo.. you want a subframe.. just like the rest of us have been saying this whole entire thread... backhoes need sub frames... as it is very likely that a 3pt backhoe broke this tractor.

As for all the push button suspension optiones you want, etc.. I'm afraid that would price the tractor out of my budget range... I want 4 tires, a seat and rops, engine, tranny, and diffy... the rest of the stuff is a bell and whistle for me...


Soundguy