Ford 1220 FEL hydraulic valve question

[Kernopelli]

I feel a little stupid posting this....but. I have a question for anyone with knowledge of the OEM Ford loader valve. I purchased one off ebay for a loader I was fabricating for a mitsubishi tractor. The valve was made for the 1200 series and I am hoping someone can help me figure out the port configuration and cut down on some trial and error. The "in", "out" and power beyond ports are not marked in the casting and I was hoping someone would describe to me which port is which, (ie: front port="IN", middle port "OUT", "back port"=power beyond). For that matter if you want to describe the 4 loader work ports configuration that would be that much better.(ie; front left+lift, front right+down pressure, back left tilt, back right trim, etc). I am a hydraulic newbie and hoping to save some frustration.
Thanks,
Darryl

 

[MadReferee]

If you post a picture I might be able to help. For example, the port nearest to the pressure relief is usually the pressure inlet port. The work ports are pairs and their function will depend on how you connect the hoses to the cylinders.

 

[Kernopelli]

Mad, Thank You for such a quick reply, sorry I have not been able to reply back (sudden illness in family has kept me away from everything else). I have been able to discern letters cast in the valve body labeling the 3 ports. The port FURTHEST from what I assume to be a relief valve ( the two simi-cylindrical "objects" that bolt to the main square body of the control valve in the first pic-I assume one or both are relief valves) is labeled "N", the middle port is labeled "P" the last port ( closest to joystick end) is labeled "T". In the third pic, the "relief valves" are hidden by the blue cover but are at the end that is the bottom of pic. I called the service manager of our local ford/NH dealership and aked if "N" is "in", "P" is PBY and "T" is "out" , he said he had no idea what N,P and T stand for.... go figure(?), only that if I try the trial and error method and dead-head the pump that it will destroy the pump very quickly. I first thought that "N" might stand for "in", "P" for "PBY" and "T" who knows what-- maybe transmission????This is what I have discovered just now though. If I apply pneumatic pressure to either "N" or "P" it blows back out of the other (N or P). If I put pressure on either "N" or "P" and then function the joy stick, pressure becomes blocked and ceases the flow out of the other port ("N or "P"). When I put air pressure to the "T" port it is blocked until you function the joy stick then air pressure comes out of the work ports. I assume now that N and P are the open center system ( for lack of better term) and "N" might stand for "neutral" pressure, "P" might stand for (high) pressure and "T" stands for God knows what, but is the power beyond. My tractor has two lines attached to the pump, a smaller line that I believe is the pressure side and it runs back to the 3 point. The other line is much larger and runs from the bottom of the transmission to the pump-I assume this is suction (or return). Am I right to think that I need to cut the high pressure line coming out of the pump and run it to the "P" port. Then the "N" port runs back to dump into the transmission and the "T" port into the line running to the 3 point. This will allow fluid to circulate whether or not using the loader valve and always allows the 3 point to work at any time.(?) I have searched all of the PBY threads and sceen that you and some others could seemingly write books on hydraulics and until reading all the posts I could have written my entire knowledge of hydraulics on my thumb nail. I think I understand a little better now ( my transcribed knowledge may fit on two thumb nails now ). After talking to the Ford/NH guy I am scared to death of ruining an expensive pump and frankly my head still starts to swim when I try to put it all together. From what I have described, am I even close on how to plumb my system?
THANKS in advance!
Darryl

 

[dqdave1]

Go to new holland north america web site; click on parts and supplies; type in 1220 under model; go to hydrailic systems; will show you a breakdown of system on a 1220. Hope it helps.

 

[MadReferee]

Here you go:

T = Tank port (return going back to the sump)

P = Pressure inlet from the pump

N = power beyond outlet to the Next valve

Connecting these lines incorrectly may cause a pump failure so be carefull.

 

[Kernopelli]

Thanks guys. I checked out the New Holland site - good information for sure.

Mad: My Mitsubishi is set up differently than the NH 1220 so just to clarify this in my mind, let me run this by you and see if I'm on the right page. My Mits has a pressure line running from the pump to the 3 point. I cut my pressure line and run it from the pump to the "P" port. Connect the "N" port to the other end of the pressure line I cut that runs to my 3 point and the "T" port I dump back into the transmission. Does this sound right? Also I wanted to run this by you. My sump return line to the pump connects to the bottom on my transmission housing. There are only 3 openings cast in the transmission housing to plumb my return to tank(sump) line from the FEL valve; 1. A small 1/4" drain plug, 2.The 1 1/2" fluid fill/ dipstick, 3. The suction line to the pump. I really don't want to drill and tap the housing for my tank return ("T" port) line and I assume that if I put a T fitting on the suction line and run my "T" port line into that I will basically just be recirculating a relatively small volume of hot oil through my FEL valve over and over since it isn't "mixing" into the entire volume of my hydraulic system with each return cycle ( does that make sense???). I made a fitting to replace my dipstick and planned to use this as the way to return the"T" port line to the sump. I'll just disconnect it when I need to check or fill fluid levels. If you can follow what I tried to explain, is there any problem with setting it up this way other than it isn't convenient to add fluid and isn't very pretty? Well, I guess I've proved it again-"Poor people have poor ways", or maybe in my case- "dumb people have dumb ways".

 

[MadReferee]

My Mits has a pressure line running from the pump to the 3 point. I cut my pressure line and run it from the pump to the "P" port. Connect the "N" port to the other end of the pressure line I cut that runs to my 3 point and the "T" port I dump back into the transmission. Does this sound right?

Yes, that's right.

Also I wanted to run this by you. My sump return line to the pump connects to the bottom on my transmission housing. There are only 3 openings cast in the transmission housing to plumb my return to tank(sump) line from the FEL valve; 1. A small 1/4" drain plug, 2.The 1 1/2" fluid fill/ dipstick, 3. The suction line to the pump. I really don't want to drill and tap the housing for my tank return ("T" port) line and I assume that if I put a T fitting on the suction line and run my "T" port line into that I will basically just be recirculating a relatively small volume of hot oil through my FEL valve over and over since it isn't "mixing" into the entire volume of my hydraulic system with each return cycle ( does that make sense???). I made a fitting to replace my dipstick and planned to use this as the way to return the"T" port line to the sump. I'll just disconnect it when I need to check or fill fluid levels. If you can follow what I tried to explain, is there any problem with setting it up this way other than it isn't convenient to add fluid and isn't very pretty?

The return to tank line can be teed in with other return to tank lines. It's done all the time as this is a neutral pressure line. BTW, this is the only line that can be teed with other lines in a typical hydraulic system.

 

[Kernopelli]

SUCCESS! I got everything together this afternoon and I'll be darned if it didn't work. Have a few minor leaks that I'll take care of tomorrow but other than that all is well. Thanks you Mad for your assistance on the plumbing.
Darryl

 

[Kernopelli]

Rats!!!!!!!!!! Well at least I know my FEL (WILL) work. A new problem has risen. The hard pressure line on my Mitsubishi tractor is approx. 12 MM (.47inch). I used two 1/2 inch compression fittings from Discount Hydraulics to splice into my line hoping that if I cranked them down enough they would work. They did but it was short lived- after lifting several full buckets of material the fitting on the pump side of the splice started blowing off the hard line. I need two fittings that are 12mm compression to 1/2" female NTP or somthing 12MM that I can eventually connect to my 1/2 NTP hoses. Discount Hydraulics said the only thing they have are 12MM metric sleeves that I can use with a 1/2" JIC fitting to slice my line with reliably. What do you guys suggest?? I don't have access to a 37 degree flaring tool (they apparently start at $110 so that's out just to use it once or twice!) I would consider brazing a fitting on but have no idea what to use to do this. I asked the guy at my local Rural King farm supply (its like TSC) and he was not much help telling me that if I braze a fitting on the hard line it will weaken it and quickly break (I don't think that's necessarily accurate)I need some more HELP please!

 

[dqdave1]

A good hydraulic /high pressure line/hose repair shop should be able to help you create what you want.