Synthetic vs Standard (groan)

[AlanB]

Not trying to start the entire debate again, which is played out one million times before and is easy to find in a search.

Here is the scenario, you change the oil annually in your engine.

It is not due to lubricating properties (per se) use, dirty from use etc. It is being changed more due to moisture contamination and as a best practice.

Discounting slicker, longer lasting, if you punch a hole in the oil pan the synthetic will cling to the engine and not want to leave arguments for the synthetic.

Is there an argument that the synthetic oil will resist moisture contamination better then the conventional?

I know, with say Brake fluid, that is the case regarding mishability although my personal belief is that causes some problems as well in brakes where "puddles" of water sit and cause rust.

[Z-Michigan]

Synthetic oils typically have a higher TBN which is a measure of acid-neutralizing ability. TBN gets used up with either driving or sitting there, so oils with higher TBN should be ok to leave in longer without worrying about internal corrosion in the oil system.

As far as I understand the TBN is not directly caused by being synthetic, it is simply a manufacturing decision. I suspect that petro oils don't have as much of the TBN additives because they would be more prone to sludge formation over a longer time period.

[DieselPower]

Not all synthetic oils have a higher TBN and being synthetic does not mean they will have a high TBN. TBN is achieved by the use of additives and depends on the formulation used for each oil.

Synthetic engine oil is not going to be any more water "resistant" than conventional engine oils are mainly due to the additives used in each. The raw base stock itself might be but once it is additized any water resistance goes out the door.

If you punch a hole in your oil pan the only thing that is going to save your engine is if you shut it off. No mystery fairy dust synthetic oil is going to save it. As far as synthetic being "slicker" that would only be true of ester based oil which there are very few of on the market due to vastly increased price over say a PAO base stock.

There are two things that make a good lubricant. The base stock and the additive package. Just because a lubricant is synthetic does not mean it will perform any better than it's dino based brother. Additive package formulations are what make or break a good lubricant. Stick with a high quality lubricant and your engine will be fine.

One thing you can do in addition to using a good lubricant is perform used oil analysis. If you really want to know how well your oil is performing then the UOA can either prove or disprove it.

[john_bud]

Originally Posted by DieselPower

\


No mystery fairy dust synthetic oil is going to save it.

.

Awwwwww, and I went out and bought a $50 bag of mystery fairy dust and was going to put it in the engine this weekend. Looks like I wasted my money (again)! Anybody want some unused fairy dust?

Back on topic....
If you are changing your trans hydraulic fluid to keep it dry, you may want to look into getting and externally mounted filter on a fluid return line and using a water removing filter. Donaldson (and others) make and sell them very reasonable. Like $8-10 bucks.

If you don't have an external generic filter spot, you can buy a $20 filter head and a put it in place of an FEL cylinder (temporarily) and cycle the fluid thru the filter once a year for an hour. Will clean it up and remove water that may be there. Cheaper than a complete fluid change.

jb

[CRAFTBENDER]

Originally Posted by DieselPower

Not all synthetic oils have a higher TBN and being synthetic does not mean they will have a high TBN. TBN is achieved by the use of additives and depends on the formulation used for each oil.

Synthetic engine oil is not going to be any more water "resistant" than conventional engine oils are mainly due to the additives used in each. The raw base stock itself might be but once it is additized any water resistance goes out the door.

If you punch a hole in your oil pan the only thing that is going to save your engine is if you shut it off. No mystery fairy dust synthetic oil is going to save it. As far as synthetic being "slicker" that would only be true of ester based oil which there are very few of on the market due to vastly increased price over say a PAO base stock.

There are two things that make a good lubricant. The base stock and the additive package. Just because a lubricant is synthetic does not mean it will perform any better than it's dino based brother. Additive package formulations are what make or break a good lubricant. Stick with a high quality lubricant and your engine will be fine.

One thing you can do in addition to using a good lubricant is perform used oil analysis. If you really want to know how well your oil is performing then the UOA can either prove or disprove it.

Where can you get an analysis done and how much does it cost?

[DieselPower]

I posted this some time back about UOA's and what they are. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/o...?highlight=UOA There are numerous labs that perform used oil analysis and they can be found with a simple web search. Here's links to a few.

WearCheck - Condition Monitoring through Oil Analysis

Herguth - People and data you can count on

Blackstone Laboratories (very good people and I have used them before)

DYSON ANALYSIS (top notch service, Terry Dyson is tops in interpreting/reading UOA's and explaining them. Not cheap but you get what you pay for.)

[RWEST]

DP - According to Blackstone Blackstone Laboratories - Dyson Analysis they can also provide Dyson's analysis services.

[DieselPower]

Yes, Blackstone and Terry Dyson have a joint deal. Blackstone will have Terry interpret the UOA for you at a additional cost. If you really want to have a good explanation of the test results and what it means Terry's service is well worth it.

[RWEST]

If you really want to have a good explanation of the test results and what it means Terry's service is well worth it.

Yep. We're getting into extended OCI's on a bunch of the company vehicles, so we're getting set up with Blackstone/Dyson.

[DieselPower]

You picked a good service and good people to help guide you through your extended change intervals. What kind of fleet? Light duty or heavy duty vehicles?