Truckers strike

[milkman]

My brother drives for a company out of Mo. and I just talked to him, he said the truckers are stricking and it is really having an affect, he has counted and there are like 75 to 80 trucks between each mile marker on the interstate today, before the strike he said there was like 80 to 75 trucks between each mile marker so it is really working and they're really sticking together.
Just like all the other trucker strikes.

 

[TomOfTarsus]

Well, you have to feel for them. I have a 26 mile commute, it's a pain in the wallet, but the type of work I do isn't something I can pick up just anywhere - and theirs depends on fuel prices strongly, and probably no one wants to be the frst to hike their rates to make it up.

Z-Michigan, I agree that free markets aren't pretty and am a strong believer in them. But it's not a matter of oil companies being cowed by the enviros. If they COULD, they at least might build, but if a judge stops you, you won't build. Look at the nuclear power industry, the greenies caused them no end of trouble. Everything from demonstrations to court action. Now a lot of those jaspers are in the EPA and getting a new refinery permitted is not that easy.

It would be bad, though, if they think we're passing the peak.

 

[CurlyDave]

Look at the nuclear power industry, the greenies caused them no end of trouble.

When I was just out of college, my first job was at a company that made nuclear power plants. It took me four years to realize that the biggest problem in that industry was that no matter what price a seller and a buyer agreed on, the government reserved the right to come along at any future time and change the rules. Not just a little, but drastically change the rules.

The price of a fullsize power plant could triple in the course of a single year because of new government regulations. More than anything else, that is what threw nuclear power into a tailspin in the late 70s.

Until that issue gets fixed, nuclear power is never going to be competitive.

 

[TomOfTarsus]

Yes, Dave, that is true as well. I've read that they have changed this approach, and it is helping - TVA is completeing a second plant that was "back-burnere'd" a good ways back (I forget which right now) and I understand that there is some movement even on the environmentalist's part to embrace nuclear power as an alternative to massive CO2 emissions from a similar amount of coal.

I've sometime wondered, though, if you drew a big circle around the whole deal, what would be the net result. By the time you do everything to the uranium to get it mined, refined, enriched, and into fuel rods, along with all the transportation, and all the massive amounts of paperwork and ancillary energy (I often joke around here about "killing a pile of tress" to comply with the regulatory format), how far ahead are you on the CO2 scale?

Still, when you think about how much coal a 1 MW coal plant would burn in 6 years vs. the one little reactor full of fuel rods, that's kind of amazing. We're probably way ahead.

I was out your way on a business trip last week. Pittsbugh to Reno, up to Portland, back to Reno and then on home. Beautiful country, and it was clear. Mt. Hood and Mt. St Helens, even Ranier, were all visible - and on the flight up from Reno, all those others, Jefferson, Adams... Wow. All the snow is still on'em, too whcih made them just that much prettier.

Later,

Tom

 

[ampsucker]

i happen to have the distinction (misfortune?) of living in a town with its very own refinery. i believe it is true that no new refinerys have been built in this country since the 70s and that it is refinery capacity (not oil supplies) which is currently driving up the price of gas. but, i do know that our little local refinery has been working like crazy to expand capacity over the last few years. our whole town is periodically full of out of state contractors working on new distillation and cracking towers and the plant runs round the clock. my understanding is they supply gas, diesel, kerosene and the lighter hydrocarbons to a 7 state area. they recently went public with an IPO so they are not oil company owned.

and no, they don't have pumps outside the plant to supply the locals with cheap gas from the source! (cut out the middle man, heh, heh).

it's just like the other common joke around here. we have an amazon.com warehouse pretty close by. we are always wishing they would put in a drivethrough window, but no, we have to order online and get things delivered by ups/fedex just like everyone else!

sorry, i don't actually know much about the trucker strike. i do know that one of the guys who organized it is out of joplin missouri and i heard him on the radio the other day when driving through. he is calling for the feds to temporarily repeal the fuel tax until a solution can be found or the market can stabilize. i believe his feeling is that if congress can bail out the mortgage industry and save all those folks who got in over their heads (banks and consumers alike) while the rest of us continue to pay our mortgages regularly, that the independent truckers deserve a little love, too. can't say i disagree too much.

i can also verify that there are significant fuel savings when buying for fleets. it's not in the order of 1/2 off or anything, but it is significant and could make the difference between being profitable or not. the average joe can get a 1-5% savings with the right gas card. my friend worked for phillips 66 and his job was to sell fuel to fleet owners (cabs, truckers, utilities, gas stations, etc.) the first price break comes if you can buy a tanker truck at a time and dispense it yourself. then they also offered fuel cards that gave discounts at the pumps for fleets if you were loyal to certain stations or chains. i was always asking him how i could get in on that action. he told me i didn't buy enough fuel so there wasn't anything he could do. ;-) i'm guessing the savings were probably in the range of 8-20%. using 10%, an independent trucker spending 800 bux a day on fuel and running 21 days a month would be able to bring home an extra $1,680 a month. that pays some bills.

fwiw, there is no free market anymore. it is an illusion if it ever did exist, much like democracy. we are a representational republic, not a true democracy. since the beginning, the founding fathers knew the average citizen was generally incapable of making informed decisions, so they structured the government to allow representation of large groups by single invididuals. this is still the way to get attention today, you have to get organized and get a lot of people on your side to have your voice and ideas heard. i applaud the truckers for bringing this to the national stage instead of suffering in silence.

me, i'm glad i have a fuel efficient kubota engine in my tractor! i mowed all four acres this weekend on a 1/4 tank. ;-)

amp

 

[neucam]

Lots of good comments/observations about this subject. A truckers strike would hurt our business, as a trickle down effect that has been happening for several months. Our cost of goods has been rising every month mostly because of trucking costs. But we have to pass our increases on to our customers if we can, otherwise we eat it, so the truckers have to take there dip also and wait it out as we all do. Why do they think their profit should stay high when everyone elses suffers. No pity.

 

[milkman]

Lots of good comments/observations about this subject. A truckers strike would hurt our business, as a trickle down effect that has been happening for several months. Our cost of goods has been rising every month mostly because of trucking costs. But we have to pass our increases on to our customers if we can, otherwise we eat it, so the truckers have to take there dip also and wait it out as we all do. Why do they think their profit should stay high when everyone elses suffers. No pity.

Truckers profit high????? you smoking something????? You obviously haven't been there.

 

[ampsucker]

i realize it's easy to think that profit is high due to the high costs of transportation, but listening to the guy who helped organize this strike form joplin made me think differently. his argument is that the independent truckers are losing money anyway just driving down the road. why not strike if you're going to go in the hole every month anyway? i agree, they would lose less by hauling since they are making some money that way, but if guys are parking their rigs or losing them to the repo man because they can't make ends meet, i can see the motivation to strike and hopefully get some relief as opposed to slowing spiraling down the drain while working hard every month.

amp

 

[TomOfTarsus]

It's obviously a complicated question, and it does involve a weak dollar and the forieign state-run monopolies, but I was disgusted when I heard on the radio this AM that the refineries have cut production to keep the prices high. This was on KDKA, 1020 AM in Pittsburgh this AM, and the man was their usual contact, an industry insider and local dealer and/or dealer association president.

Like I said, I'm generally a free market guy, and have nothing against massive profits in most instances, but this is starting to smack of collusion. I wonder about the statement. Is there a reason? Are they having to cut back in order to set up for the summer "gasoline mixed drinks bar", with regulations demanding all those 26 different blends for the summer? Are they reinvesting in new wells, new resource development?... or is it simply collusion? They have it, we have to have it. As I mentioned earlier, it's not like you and I are going to start an oil company becasue we think we can do it cheaper.

The point is, it's more than just free market profits. They are entrusted by the public because they are so massive that there is no reasonable way to start up competition. So in a sense, esp. if collusion is involved, they constitue a kind of monopoly. I mean after all, it's not difficult to see what you competition is doing price wise - just take a drive around town.

One last thing: I just had a trip out west, and they have something that we don't have around my area: ARCO stations that only take cash or debit (with a $0.45 debit card fee). They were charging 10% less than everyone else. Beats any deal I've ever had with my credit cards.

 

[JSharp]

It's obviously a complicated question, and it does involve a weak dollar and the forieign state-run monopolies, but I was disgusted when I heard on the radio this AM that the refineries have cut production to keep the prices high. This was on KDKA, 1020 AM in Pittsburgh this AM, and the man was their usual contact, an industry insider and local dealer and/or dealer association president.

Like I said, I'm generally a free market guy, and have nothing against massive profits in most instances, but this is starting to smack of collusion. I wonder about the statement. Is there a reason? Are they having to cut back in order to set up for the summer "gasoline mixed drinks bar", with regulations demanding all those 26 different blends for the summer? Are they reinvesting in new wells, new resource development?... or is it simply collusion? They have it, we have to have it. As I mentioned earlier, it's not like you and I are going to start an oil company becasue we think we can do it cheaper.

The point is, it's more than just free market profits. They are entrusted by the public because they are so massive that there is no reasonable way to start up competition. So in a sense, esp. if collusion is involved, they constitue a kind of monopoly. I mean after all, it's not difficult to see what you competition is doing price wise - just take a drive around town.

One last thing: I just had a trip out west, and they have something that we don't have around my area: ARCO stations that only take cash or debit (with a $0.45 debit card fee). They were charging 10% less than everyone else. Beats any deal I've ever had with my credit cards.

Not a monopoly, an oligopoly.

Oligopoly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

" A market form in which a market or industry is dominated by a small number of sellers (oligopolists). The word is derived from the Greek for few sellers. Because there are few participants in this type of market, each oligopolist is aware of the actions of the others. The decisions of one firm influence, and are influenced by the decisions of other firms. Strategic planning by oligopolists always involves taking into account the likely responses of the other market participants. This causes oligopolistic markets and industries to be at the highest risk for collusion. "

Naw, couldn't be...