Low Sulfur Diesel, lubrication issues

[patrick_g]

According to DIS (Diesel Injector Service with web page at Diesel Injection Service (DIS Main Page))

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Low sulfur fuel (lower lubricity fuel and or fuel contamination) has been known to cause plunger and barrel assemblies in the injection pump to stick causing a stall on acceleration. These plungers can sometimes be cleaned or freed up but often times one or more need replacing because of scoring created by poor lubrication. One might consider a lubrication additive to prevent this problem.
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So, do later model year diesels such as the '08 Ford, Cummins, or... diesel accessories take this into account in their design or do you still "NEED" snake oil?

I feel as if I need snake oil for my '97 Cummins/Dodge (last of the non computer 12 valve) but wonder about the new models.

Sure, it wouldn't hurt the engine to use appropriate additives whether or not they are needed or do anything beneficial for you but that or the pocket book issue is not the question.

The question is, "Do the new ('08 or later) diesel pickups "NEED" lubricity additives because of low sulfur diesel?

Pat

 

[john_bud]

As far as I have been able to tell, the answer is an all bold red 24 pt yes. The new common rail pumps and injectors operating at 22,000 psi and even higher have super close tolerances and are very easily damaged. The new ones need lubricity more than the old ones.

I use an oz of 2 cycle oil per gallon of fuel. That has been tested to provide more lubricity than everything except bioD. And is cheap when you buy the blue jug from walmart for 9 bucks a gallon. Plus in the winter Howes Diesel treat in every tank to keep the stuff from gelling. You probably don't have to worry about that! Also I use the additive every other tank or so in the summer.

If you can get B2 (2% bio diesel), that will have all the lubricity you need or could want. Higher % may cause filter clogging issues as deposites are cleaned out of the tank. The bio is a great solvent and cleaner, but that can clog filters the first 1-10 tanks, depending on how much crud you have in the system.

 

[xlr82v2]

I would say that the best people to ask would be the people at the dealer... and get their response in writing... that way if you ever have trouble, you have proof of their recommendation.

 

[patrick_g]

I would say that the best people to ask would be the people at the dealer... and get their response in writing... that way if you ever have trouble, you have proof of their recommendation.

I find dealer personnel to typically exhibit quite a wide spectrum of knowledge levels and can be a poor source of info at times or a good one with the difficulty being which are which.

Get a dealer to sign a written statement? How? Torture? Gun to head?

Pat

 

[SPYDERLK]

I find dealer personnel to typically exhibit quite a wide spectrum of knowledge levels and can be a poor source of info at times or a good one with the difficulty being which are which.

Get a dealer to sign a written statement? How? Torture? Gun to head?

Pat

How about a manufacturer written statement? How about some info from those of them on the forum?!
larry

 

[xlr82v2]

I find dealer personnel to typically exhibit quite a wide spectrum of knowledge levels and can be a poor source of info at times or a good one with the difficulty being which are which.

Get a dealer to sign a written statement? How? Torture? Gun to head?

Pat

Pat,

[laughing...] So you're going to ask for your information here instead?

At least if you get a response in writing from your dealer, you have a chance of recourse should you have a problem.

If you just say that "the good folks at TBN told me I should/shouldn't do it", then they're just going to say "Well, you should have asked us. Here's the bill."

The dealers have access to all of the service bulletins and recommendations and other info garnered from the entire fleet of these trucks that are having warranty repairs performed... Here in TBN, you have what... a bunch of old wives tales, Semi-SWAG's, and all-out falsehoods mixed in with some good advice. And you'll have to decide which is good and which is not... so are you any better off?

We've both been on here long enough to know you have to seriously filter some of the advice given on here...

Go to your dealer... keep asking questions until you're satisfied... ask for answers from "the higher ups". Don't give up. And get it in writing. If you can, do it all via email... then you have a written record of your inquiry.

 

[SnowRidge]

How about a manufacturer written statement? How about some info from those of them on the forum?!
larry

The owners manual will have a statement regarding fuel. Usually they say no additives required, with the possible exception of anti-gelling agents in cold weather.

LSD and ULSD sold in the US are required to meet certain lubricity requirements. The newer engines are designed to work with fuel that meets those requirements. The requirements are also designed to protect older engines. The specific requirements are linked on the EPA web site.

People selling additives will always claim their additives do something that the fuel doesn't. Other than anti-gelling agents in winter and biocides if the vehicle sits unused for long periods, no additives should be needed.

There may be some mild disagreement with the above.

 

[DieselPower]

The best people to ask about injector and injection pump failures are pump/injector rebuild shops. I have worked at dealerships over the years and the truth is that mechanics are prone to gosip, wives tales and misinformation just like anyone else. The people at a shop that rebuild pumps and injectors for a living see the results, positive or negative. Most of the shops in my area that are my customers say they have seen a increase in failures when LSD was introduced. ULSD hasn't been around long enough in many areas to tell if the long term effects will be worse than with LSD was.

 

[patrick_g]

Pat,

[laughing...] So you're going to ask for your information here instead?

We've both been on here long enough to know you have to seriously filter some of the advice given on here...

Brian, Are you familiar with the "Golden Apple" ploy? Judgment of Paris?

I have always put faith in Cummins regarding their statements of what is good to do for their engines. They are in the clean fuel, biocide if needed, and anti-gel if conditions warrant (kerosene-diesel mix is OK for winterized fuel) camp and I agree.

I was never a fan of snake oil for my Cummins BUT it predates ULSD. So, I tend to lean in the "JohnBud" direction as regards the Cummins and ULSD.

Regarding the Ford PSD of the '08 vintage... I think the manual can be taken to be a "written statement" from the manufacturer.

I was amused by the suggestion(s) to get a written statement from the dealer and although not interested in attempting that (I have other windmills a plenty!) still wonder (while grinning a bit) how you would get them to take on the liability with nothing to gain.

OK, now to drop the other shoe... My original post was posed to solicit comments and it worked just fine. I believe I already had the information I need in this instance but any of us may gain by the exchange of comments, of course with the standard caveats considered.

Oh, and by the way, JohnBud, I do use anti-gel here in south central Oklahoma. In the last few years the lowest temp I have noticed at my house has been -8 degrees Fahrenheit. Diesel can start to give problems well above that if, for example, you have "summer diesel" aka #2 and not "winter blend." I have 3 diesel vehicles and 3 gas. Sometimes one or more may not get used much for a period of time depending on the operational pace and specific tasks at hand and I can end up with summer fuel in the tank in winter. Easy with my Cummins-Dodge with LARGE aftermarket fuel tank.

For the record, I have always used biocide and anti-gel but only started "subsidizing" the lubricity for my '97 Dodge out of concern for lowered lubricity of the ULSD. The '08 Ford PSD was designed for ULSD and so long as fuel meets current requirements it should be OK. A little extra lubricity as insurance (in moderation like JohnBud does) should not hurt the engine or the pocketbook.

Pat

 

[SnowRidge]

I just remembered that someone did a study of diesel lubricity after adding various flavours of snake oil to the mix. You can find it here.